Maternity vs paternity

[Maternity101]

Name change for this in case it's outing!

My workplace recently doubled the paternity leave policy from 6 weeks to 12 weeks full pay. Clearly that's wonderful for men and I'm pleased they'll be able to spend so much time with their newborn.

No change in maternity policy which is 26 weeks full pay so appreciate also on the better side compared to other companies.

Looking it up I can see lots of companies have started increasing paternity leave and in some cases paternity and maternity leave are the same! I fully appreciate the 2 weeks a lot of men get is stingy but I also am surprised that men's benefits are increasing so much with no change at all for women.

The woman has to physically carry and make the baby - often with a lot of complications. By the end many women struggle to work and opt to start maternity leave early (getting less time with the baby). Then the woman has to somehow get the baby out of her - this is often a big ordeal, involving surgery, trauma etc. Then the woman might be breastfeeding (the NHS recommends 6 months). Therefore, no matter the intention the woman will always be the primary care giver & more likely to be impacted by sleep deprivation etc if breastfeeding.

I understand not all women breast feed for lots of reasons but let's put that aside for now as not the point of the thread!

I can see there are all sorts of reasons why men and families would benefit from increased paternity leave too. More support & bonding etc.

However, I can't understand why men are being given so much time off when compared with women who are literally giving up their bodies to make the baby!

AIBU? It feels like I'm the only person who thinks this way?

I think newborns should be with their mother , however sexist that may sound. I would hate the pressure of women going back 'early' so the man could take his leave if it becomes parental so either could be off.

It’s to attract and retain staff. Pretty much. I couldn’t only dream of six months full pay btw!

Im self employed so I actually took 3 days off work with each of my 3 youngest kids but Im not keen on the policy of shared paternity/maternity leave. The idea that you can take some of mums leave feels so wrong. That being said I think a sliding scale of paternity leave should exist - maybe 4 weeks as standard to be taken at tge beginning of baby's birth with longer paid if mum or baby are in hospital for a period of time.

I agree OP. Increasing pat leave is good, but it’s not as important to a newborn as time with Mum (sorry, but it’s just not) and shouldn’t come at the expense of women’s mat leave and mat pay.

I took maternity leave, then when i went back to work DH took paternity leave. I had the time to recover from childbirth, do all the bf etc, and then DH got the young toddler stage. Was brilliant

This is a really good point - I know quite a few mums who have gone back around the 6-9 month mark so their husband can do the shared parental leave & been quite upset that they’ve done all the hard bits and the husband has then got the baby at the stage where they start to be a bit easier / more fun

Sorry everyone I was watching traitors and forgot I had started this!

It's so interesting to hear the perspectives. Hugely good point that some men could actually have absolutely loads of batches of paternity leave, given there is no limit to how many children they can have. Also over a much longer time period. I am guessing this is why the extended policies for men will never become widespread for all companies!

It does seem like most people here are supportive and don't see it as a bad thing. I do get that and do see it as a good thing... but still simultaneously feel like women are getting the raw deal as the one doing all the growing & birthing!!

Also appreciate posters saying they got very limited leave and how hard that must have been. I don't want to seem like I'm being ungrateful or anything like that. Just a bit shocked at how generous some of the big corporate companies are now to men with zero change to women.

Two of my friends had a baby just before Christmas. She had a C section so now still taking it easy and resting (so would obviously benefit from the help hugely). Her DH has 6 weeks off work and has been doing lots of DIY jobs round the house - as well as looking after the baby and helping. He's the active type that would struggle to 'do nothing'. I am not sure if that case supports or hinders my thoughts tbh. Again totally depends how helpful the man is I suppose...

I've never met a man (even the 'brilliant fathers') who can fully put the baby needs before their own on a day by day basis.

I think it's only a good thing that men are given more time off to be at home with their partners and new babies. It's not just about who gave birth, it's that men who are involved right from the get-go tend to go on to be more involved fathers and husbands, compared to those who had minimum time off. I am speaking from my observations and my own experience of my DH having quite a lot of time off. He and DC have a wonderful relationship, and DH does as much childcare etc as I do, and I think it's because he was getting involved at the start and didn't see it as only my job.

"It's not fair. Men never spend time with their kids. They say it's because they need to work"

Company gives men more paternity leave to spend time with their children...

"It's not fair, why can't I get more time off!"

🙄

We did SPL - 7 months me, 4 months DH - and I do remember feeling a bit like this just before we switched over. However, 7 years on we still have the most equal split of childcare of any couple I know, and I do think at least some of that is due to sharing the leave. Both having periods of being main carer, and both having periods of the one going to work while the other stayed home, was so transformative. So I'm very happy with the decision I made in the end, even if right before going back to work I wasn't sure it was the right thing.

Incidentally I found that it was other women who were generally really horrified/against the idea of sharing the leave in the way we were - I got a lot of pity from them.

I've never said men never spend time with their kids... the vast majority of women work now so that would be very outdated.

Take your point but most don't seem to agree with me anyway. So it was more a case of wanting to hear views rather than complaining.

I get what you’re saying, you can’t tell someone how to spend their leave. But do you genuinely think it’s ok and acceptable for a partner to take half their partners maternity leave away from them and deliberately take it at the same time so that they aren’t having to do the parenting, when that decision will cost your child an additional 6 months at home with a parent and 6 additional months of childcare costs because they didn’t want to have the time alone with the child to actually be a parent? We all knew that was what he was doing because we’d seem and heard his “parenting” stories from their first child, then the bragging about the football and the break for the second. The other guy though I mentioned as a Stella example of exactly how it should be used, to show that it isn’t always bad. It was really encouraging for us to see him step up and take on the primary carer role when his wife went back to work - he wasn’t taking 6 months off whilst she did it all.

I treasured every minute of my mat leave. If I’d had to give any of it up to allow my husband, who was quite frankly useless with the kids, to take the time instead of me I’d have been devastated, particularly during my second maternity leave where I had severe PND that I only realised at 9 months PP - if I’d been back at work I don’t think that would have been found.

I think men’s pay leave should be in addition to women’s Mat leave - not taking from it. As the OP pointed out, part of that leave is also about recovering from the birth and pregnancy too!

Yes I must admit I also wouldn't share my maternity leave with my husband! My DH has often suggested it...

I would see it as taking away my time from the baby. Also I would struggle to be motivated at work knowing I could be at home.

I think my maternal urges are quite strong and maybe I'm just not very giving!

Thats so great at how involved your DH is now as a result though.

This in spades.

No employers give a shit. They want their pound of flesh and enhanced paternity is a recruitment tool.

So women want men to have longer paternity leave so they’re not left doing it all alone. But if men get longer then women want even longer (despite it already being much longer). They don’t want the man to take this extended leave at the same time as them but they also don’t want them to take it during the “easier” bit.

But this isn’t the case here. The OP was saying this is paid leave from the company, nothing to do with maternity leave, it doesn’t affect maternity leave at all. Nobody is taking away anything. It’s a wonderful bonus.

But this isn’t the case here. It’s extra paid leave (doesn’t affect maternity leave). You can take it any time. We split ours so enjoyed all stages of the baby in the first year.

Giving men more time isn’t taking away from women. It’s adding to their time off with support and a partner who can do some of the nights giving mum a break.

I don’t see why anyone would complain about it.

I think you’re being unreasonable.

More paternity leave and more men taking up shared parental leave (as long as they are taking it for the genuine reason of caring for their children), can only be a good thing. Men who take up the opportunity are more likely to be a longstanding, genuine support to the mother of their children for as long as childrearing continues. I’d argue that is far more valuable than a slightly extended maternity leave.

Studies have shown that children of men who take shared parental leave have overall better outcomes in emotional development and education than children who don’t. Couples that take shared parental leave are also less likely to divorce.

Of course these finding might be associations rather than causal, but there are a great percentage of men who also don’t have it modelled in the workplace and fear pioneering that step due to future repercussions they may face.

My DH was concerned about this in his industry before our kids were born until his boss took the first step when shared parental leave was first introduced. DH took 6 months off to raise our twins solo from 6 months to 1yr and it’s bettered our situation and our children in so many ways.

It most certainly is about the person who has given birth. She needs to recover and the baby needs her and she needs her baby.

I think that’s fantastic. It means parents can take shared parental leave at full pay if they want. I think it sounds like an excellent deal!

My Dh is self-employed and I was also self-employed when I had my first and then when I had my 2nd my contract ended just before the qualifying week. 😩

So I have never qualified for SMP (mat allowance only at £700 ish a month) and Dh has never had any paid paternity. He took 3 weeks each baby unpaid time off. 🤷🏻‍♀️ So sounds great to me. I would have loved a combined 6-9 months at our full income.

When a woman goes on mat leave she often finds her self in the role of primary carer despite the fact she is also recovering from birth , potentially adjusting to breastfeeding. It’s the mother who becomes the lead parent, organises routines, takes baby to appointments, introduces baby to childcare, gets up in the night, doing the housework because she is ‘off’ work. So when the mother returns to work after 6-12 months away she often finds her self working and doing the bulk of parenting/dealing with nursery/leaving work if baby is sick. Thats a factor in why so many mothers work part time or take a lower paid more flexible role or become a sahp. Because as the default parent they can’t see how else they can do it.
if dads also took some paternity leave either alongside or after the mothers leave it would mean they get the full time experience of being the default parent too. This helps with bonding with baby (so no more baby only settles for mum) , ensures dad is also a known contact at school doctors etc. And hopefully means they appreciate the role and are able to value it and support/be a part of it when both parents are working.

I don't understand that logic at all.
Parental leave isn't about "recovering from birth" past the first few weeks, it's about caring and bonding with your child, managing first few months of a baby's life which generally are the hardest, getting use to the new family dynamic...

If it was purely recovering from birth then no one needs a 52 or 26 weeks, unless major complications. In the UK, the GP post-natal check is 6 weeks post partum, so according to your logic most mothers would be going back to work then.

There really is no pleasing some people.