Maternity vs paternity

[Maternity101]

Name change for this in case it's outing!

My workplace recently doubled the paternity leave policy from 6 weeks to 12 weeks full pay. Clearly that's wonderful for men and I'm pleased they'll be able to spend so much time with their newborn.

No change in maternity policy which is 26 weeks full pay so appreciate also on the better side compared to other companies.

Looking it up I can see lots of companies have started increasing paternity leave and in some cases paternity and maternity leave are the same! I fully appreciate the 2 weeks a lot of men get is stingy but I also am surprised that men's benefits are increasing so much with no change at all for women.

The woman has to physically carry and make the baby - often with a lot of complications. By the end many women struggle to work and opt to start maternity leave early (getting less time with the baby). Then the woman has to somehow get the baby out of her - this is often a big ordeal, involving surgery, trauma etc. Then the woman might be breastfeeding (the NHS recommends 6 months). Therefore, no matter the intention the woman will always be the primary care giver & more likely to be impacted by sleep deprivation etc if breastfeeding.

I understand not all women breast feed for lots of reasons but let's put that aside for now as not the point of the thread!

I can see there are all sorts of reasons why men and families would benefit from increased paternity leave too. More support & bonding etc.

However, I can't understand why men are being given so much time off when compared with women who are literally giving up their bodies to make the baby!

AIBU? It feels like I'm the only person who thinks this way?

I can’t understand why men are being given so much time off compared with women who are literally giving up their bodies to make the baby!

Companies don’t set their mat/pay leave policies according to the amount of work men and women need to do during pregnancy, labour and with a newborn. They set them to remain competitive and retain staff.

I believe at our work place it’s interchangeable. So if the mum takes 9 months off, the dad can take 3 months. It can be at the same time or separate. If you both work there, you can decide who’s gave the full pay and who’s having the statutory leave (so if the man is the higher earner you’re better off making him have the first 6 months then the woman the second assuming shared finances). I’m past that stage these days so I don’t know how it works with working in different companies etc.

We had one guy at work planning to take 6 months pat leave. But at the same time as his wife. And all he kept going on about was how it was perfect timing as the euros or World Cup was starting about 2 weeks after her due date so he could watch all the matches. I wish I was joking. She basically gave up 6 months of her maternity leave to spend time bonding their her baby) and save god knows how much in childcare) so he could have a 6 month holiday. Because he didn’t even consider taking it separately so he had to do some childcare. This then contrasts to another guy in the team who took 6 months off AFTER his wife’s mat leave and you could see when he came back how much he truly treasured that time off to bond with his child.

sadly I think there is more blokes like number 1, and so I hate that this right is basically taking away the mums mat leave and being framed as a good thing.

6 months full pay is way above industry standard. Where I work we have a big fat zero - stat pay only. Your company sounds great. Not really sure of the issue?

Three reasons -

to support their partners
to bond with their new baby
to be given time to adapt to being a father

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that

My company has just increased paternity to 16 weeks - which seems a lot! DH got 2 weeks when our DC were born and I was in hospital for the first week so we only had a week at home before he went back to work. I would have really liked to have him at home supporting me for a bit longer (difficult birth) as I felt completely overwhelmed and anxious when I was at home, alone. So from the perspective of being at home longer to support mum, look after the baby (or older siblings) whilst mum sleeps etc, it’s a good thing really.

I don't think there's any real meaningful comparison between a father with a 12 week old and a mother with a nearly 6 month old. You can argue that their mat leave policy is stingy, but I don't see the impact of the policies on each other.

@Tillow4ever has summarised the issues perfectly (come on, my son!) and @edwinbear adds to the picture well. Ideally, the dad times his baby leave to be helpful to the family but ...

I think companies are probably increasing 'paternity' leave to cover themselves for how their employees might identify: if two men adopt or have a surrogate baby what happens about 'maternity' leave... There will be a push for men's leave to be equal to women's even though that's not really the point b/c as mentioned, women's bodies really go through the wringer .. Just another instance of men looking around and going, 'why can't WE have ... ' and other men giving it to them ...

It’s not a zero sum game. Men getting more time off isn’t taking it away from women (unless it’s SPL).

If you think women need more maternity (I agree btw although I think starting with all women getting 6 months full pay would be amazing), then focus on that and don’t worry about men getting longer paternity leave.

I think having it equal is great, my previous employer made it 6 months full pay for both men and women and it meant that men spent more time caring for their child and many of the men who took those full 6 months off then came back with reduced hours and it is likely that the time off helped them feel confident to do so - both in their position in workplace and with caring for their child.

I think it’s good that paternity leave is being increased to be on par with maternity leave. I do think that any pregnancy or recovery from childbirth with or without complications should be a separate fully paid sick leave. Especially if the baby is in the NICU. Maternity leave should start when mum and baby are home and have passed a health check.

When I had my DC I got zero paid maternity leave and my DH got zero paid paternity leave. As you can imagine, I was back to work very quickly.

I think it’s wonderful. The more time men can spend with their children the better (especially as it’s a paid policy and has no bearing on the amount of time women get paid time off). It worked brilliantly for us. Although my husband didn’t get that much paid paternity leave, we took shared parental and he got to experience having to deal with everything to do with our child being at home alone. Packing a bag, making food, doing activities, seeing the partner have to go to work and have adult conversations and some after work drinks!! Our relation with each other and our child is brilliant. There’s no resentment, we respect each other as we lived each other’s lives. We are equal in terms of care and household stuff.

I can’t see the issue, giving more families more paid time off together is surely a good thing? It also allows both to take off time together at the beginning when things are tough and you can get a break whilst you’re recovering rather than having to everything by yourself during the day with little sleep. I honestly can’t see any disadvantages, win win!!

Exactly and it reduces that issue of ‘well he has no leave so can’t take any time off as we won’t have any money’! Surely it’s of benefit to the baby and the recovering mother if there is fatherly help on hand?

This policy makes things more equal. If dad's are more involved from the beginning it is likely that childcare will be shared more equally long-term.
It also helps reduce discrimination against women of child baring age, as men will also be going on leave if they have a new child.

@Maternity101 in theory, men who father children whilst having nothing to do with them, can have a paid holiday..multiple times actually! I guess there’s no limit to how many periods of paternity leave they can take..is anyone policing whether the men are using paternity leave for it’s intended purpose!

YES

My last company equalised the policy (26 weeks) and labelled it "parental leave". It was meant to be inclusive but seriously pissed me off. No recognition of what women go through carrying and birthing a baby, nor of breastfeeding. I also would've gone nuts if my kids' father had been hanging around for six months.

My husband got two weeks, but then took two weeks annual leave. It was nice and probably enough tbh. Maybe 6 weeks paid would’ve fantastic. I think once you start getting to 3 months the company has to start thinking about replacing you with formal cover which is expensive for small businesses. I used to think I got a good package - 6 months had pay and then 3 months SMP working in local government. But if you work for central government you get 6 months full pay. I also noticed a few men getting 6 months full pay when I was off with my second, meaning they both got 6 months to spend with the baby which is nice but would drive me nuts if we were both off together!

My husband didn't even get 2 weeks with our first 2 children as he was self employed and needed to work, our third child he got 2 weeks off statutory pay (peanuts). My third child was a terrible birth and I still wasn't right 12 weeks after giving birth, I had to struggle looking after a newborn and with 2 other really small children recovering from a terrible birth. The first 2 weeks my husband literally did everything apart from breastfeed and then when he returned to work he did everything he could around work, it was tough. I would welcome extending paternity leave so no one has to struggle like I did. Not only that he'd just had a child too, he wanted to spend as much time as possible with his children in the early days but he simply couldn't. Women can currently take up to 1 year off in the UK, my workplace also offers 6 months full pay as long as you have worked there over a certain amount of time. I think this is pretty generous really. I'd welcome extending paternity leave, women will massively benefit from it too.

Glad I don’t know any of these men! A few twits shouldn’t spoil it for the rest of the population. Also, you can’t dictate how people spend their leave, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have the option. Maybe I’m biased as I work with mostly men so see more and more men take on equal responsibilities. It’s been really heartening as I work in a very traditional men’s industry where the focus used to be ‘if you’re not seen, you’re not working’, even if it meant people would stay late and do bugger all just to keep onside with their manager. Covid was actually a great catalyst for change in our industry. WFH was unheard of, as was flexible working!

I can’t see any issue with this at all to be honest, anything to equal out the load a bit can only be a positive really.

Men getting that bit longer off might help prevent mum immediately becoming the default parent when dad goes back to work while mum is off on maternity leave,

3 months paid paternity for men is brilliant and should be standard. It’s awful that after 2 weeks mothers are left alone with the baby, they need support to recover from the birth. I also agree that maternity leave should be longer. 9 months on full pay would be a good minimum, although appreciate smaller companies may struggle with this. SMP is far too low.

I had a serious birth complication and a long recovery. The thing I most needed was my husband off work. Thankfully he was given a discretionary 4 weeks full pay and a further 6 weeks very flexible working. So I think paternity leave does benefit women (obviously assuming you have a decent partner!)

Well there is as they are giving 26 weeks paid leave to women. By offering the same to men, it hasn’t taken anything away from women.

Most people I know love their partners and love spending time with them as a family, so that would have been a dream for me! Also, you don’t have to take them off together!! You’re allowed to flex it/split it. It reduces childcare bills as if you split it you can delay nursery costs.

That’s what we did. 4wks off together (he only got 2wks pay, then 2wks of leave - actually his boss was really nice and gave him an extra week paid for free, large company so went a bit under the radar!)

Then I was on my own for 3m, then we had a month together, then I was on my own again for 2m until Christmas and we managed a month all together with the holiday. I went back in Feb and he had 4m on his own until nursery. It would have been amazing if he could have had more paid leave, but I’m not complaining as it was such a special time for both of us - took a lot of savings though!!

Yes this, it’s such a strong reason for reducing discrimination against childbearing women in the workplace if nothing else!!

Agree ...and of course men also have a longer window of opportunity for this policy. I theory from sat 16 to 60 (and beyond ....) and possibly running concurrently.

But, to your point OP- I agree with you. Id like to see more done for the ones actually having 7lbs erupt from their vag....eg multiple births should get double time off.

Totally agree with you OP - my ‘D’H was absolutely useless on his first round of paternity leave, his company then extended the allowance and he got to take 4 weeks when our baby was 11 months and he treated it as an extend holiday.

I think it’s so dependent on the man. I think it’s good to normalise men taking time off when they have kids, and by that I mean good for women, although we need more applying for flexible working hours as well. However I’ve seen men taking extended leave at the same time mum was off and totally taking the piss and there are unfortunately too many women who would not benefit from their partner being off for several months after they have a baby. Months ago I heard some bloke on radio 4 advocating for extended pat leave, going on about his experience of spending 4 months arguing with his wife about how to bring up “this tiny human” and quite frankly I felt desperately sorry for his poor wife, no postpartum woman deserves that shit. My last employer fucked up by offering better provision for paternity than maternity until I pointed out what they had done. Having said all that my daughter and her lovely husband just spent six weeks off together with their first baby and it’s been joyful, although she’s probably ready to get into her own routine now.