To feel weird about Brownies because there’s a boy there?

[ElizaDolittle124]

Was invited to Brownies tonight to see my daughter do her ‘promise’. Was a bit awkward as it turns out there’s a boy in the group. Another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ The mum was v flustered trying to explain he wanted to join in and the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’ until she told him to be quiet.

I just feel a bit weird that I didn’t know. The whole reason we joined brownies was for the girls only environment, which my daughter was really excited about. Feel like I should have just put her in the scouts instead now (which would have been more convenient). But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space.

There’s a brownie camp sleepover thing next month where they sleep in dormitories. My daughter can’t go anyway as we have other plans that weekend, but it’s got me wondering how they’re going to arrange that? Surely they can’t have the boy sleeping separately in a room on his own, but equally he can’t go with the girls?

Absolute rot.

You can't safeguard guides on eg sleepovers if you are pretending they are all same sex when they are not. Basic safeguarding followed by schools separates male and female in changing rooms, toilets, sleeping arrangements.

Guides secretly allowing in boys blows it all out of the water.

As you say, Safeguarding is easy if you want to do it. Guides has shown over a number of years they don't want to!

I’d actually send in an email querying why a boy has joined as you believed it was a girls space. See what they say. If they don’t see a problem then I’d email head office about it as it goes against their single sex policy.

Just message the leader; there's no point making a Mumsnet thread and frothing about it for hours, encouraging everyone else to do the same, when you can just message the leader and ask whether the child is male or female.

DD had pretty much all of her hair cut off a couple of years back when she was 8; people on these threads like to say "you can always tell" but people genuinely couldn't - kids and parents alike thought she was a boy, referred to her as a boy even when corrected and questioned her place in Girlguiding, the toilets she was using etc. I look back at pictures and if I didn't know her, I wouldn't be able to guess from appearances whether she was male or female.

She loved her haircut and stuck it out for a long time; she felt able to stand up to anyone questioning her presence in places, but eventually it got too much and she asked to grow it out again. I hope the OP is sure the child is a boy.

You have a right to ask the leaders if he will always be there.

Definitely this.

If the child was a member prior to December 2025, it doesn't contravene their policy. No new members with Male on their birth certificate can join, but no actions have been announced regarding existing members.

It. Is. Girls. Only. That’s what they are set up as and that is what their charitable purposes say. If they want to be mixed sex they can follow the scouts in that decision. But if they want to be girls only then that means GIRLS only.

I love internet posts where a person can immediately decide if a person has male or female sexual organs. Even if they're seven years old.

You don't know if this was a boy. If you feel uncomfortable, you can ask about it.

Posting on here isn't achieving anything except provoking a debate. Which I suspect was your aim.

My son is in beavers and there’s 2 girls in his pack

Beavers and scouting as a whole are mixed sex organisations.

Yeah, that’s still dramatic They are children. Clearly this unit just didn’t want to either turn the boy away or chuck him out when the policy changed. Something that is likely also affecting many units across the country. It’s not odd or strange or suspicious. It’s a Brownie unit going against policy with a member.

Nope, I don't agree at all. If men had never been freely welcomed into female only spaces there wouldn't be a problem. Women are not bothered whatsoever by having gender non conforming women in their spaces and nor are men bothered by it. The only problem arises with men in female spaces and yes, women can identify that. In this particular situation if brownies didn't let boys into the group op wouldn't be saying there is a boy in the group because she would be able to know and trust that everyone in the group is a girl. So she would be saying (probably she wouldn't actually because she wouldn't care less) that there is a girl who looks like a boy in the group and it would be a complete non event. If people obeyed the law no strict enforcement measures like birth certificates would be needed. It is the people who have been breaking the law who have brought about the need for tighter controls so you can thank the TRAs for that.

Again, unless the child a) is actually male and b) joined after December 2025, the unit are not going against policy. If the child has full uniform they've likely been there long enough to make their promise etc and were a member before the policy was announced, therefore nothing has changed for them at this moment in time.

If you reverse the sex of this, this may allow you and others to see the point. Girls in boys spaces reduces opportunity for boys you say.
Well trans identifying males in female spaces, sports, clubs, prisons, hospital wards, quotas in business etc etc reduces opportunity privacy dignity and safety of females. Which is why if an organisation or space is saying it is single sex, it should be single sex.

Firstly, there is no evidence of anyone ‘maintaining they are the opposite sex’. Secondly, nowhere did I say this little boy should be allowed in Brownies. Nor did I say OP should accept him in her daughter’s Brownie unit.

To feel ‘off’, ‘weird’, ‘strange’ and describe that you ‘can’t put your finger on it’ is overblown for what is an entirely simple situation. This Brownie unit clearly allowed a boy to join before the policy was announced/reinforced and haven’t either don’t want or haven’t had the confidence to chuck him out for a multitude of reasons. Something that is likely happening across the country in many units.

Get on the phone with the leader and clear it up if you’re fussed. Move your daughter if you’re not happy. Report the unit to girl guiding if you must.

"Frothing", "hysterical", "gentile inspections", this thread has got it all.

PP mentioned that peers would know the sex of the child in question, and I think that is the most logical explanation. Are we now saying primary schools don't mention the sex of the pupils at all by the time they are 7 (year 2/3)?

Is that the policy? That existing boy members are allowed to remain? I thought they all had to go, but only skimmed the email I got about it.

The problem with using Scouts as some sort of beacon of change is that they didn’t change to become a mixed-sex organisation out of idealogical reasons, they changed because not enough boys actually wanted to join and also because they couldn’t get enough male volunteers so they needed more women to step up, and allowing daughters to join as well as sons opens up the volunteer pool more. So it was out of necessity at that point, not necessarily ideology.

Girlguiding doesn’t have that issue, membership is very healthy, women tend to be more likely to volunteer in general, etc. It doesn’t need men to prop up falling rolls or lack of volunteering.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members, but more information will be shared shortly.

No idea what's coming, but that's their current stance.

Hi OP

Presumably you signed your DD up for Brownies as somewhere for her to be with other girls? That’s why it’s feeling a bit off.

As someone else posted, Girl Guiding changed their rules of membership to be girls only in December - meaning no trans girls / boys who think they’re girls and no boys who still think they’re boys - to align with the Supreme Court ruling in April last year that sex means biological sex.

As your DD is new, it must be hard to raise this but they’re breaking their own rules and the law. You might get some help on how to broach it on the Sex and Gender Feminism boards here, or look at Sex Matters. Could you try and see what some of the other parents or girls think so you don’t feel a lone voice.

I hope someone who works in Brownies or Guides can come along too to help you.

Critical reading skills are important.

If this child was a member before 2nd December 2025, no Girlguiding rules are being broken.

This sounds similar to the private school situation where some boys schools have become co-ed but girls schools are largely staying single sex. There is lots of evidence that mixed sex benefits boys and disadvantages girls which is why, to me, it was wonderful that the Girl Guiding association had finally seen sense and clarified its rules on which sex can attend. My understanding is that Girl Guiding as the name implies, is for girls only.

Yes sorry - was just considering deleting my own post! Classic, had read all the OP’s posts but not all the replies 🤦‍♀️

But still stands why it feels a bit off.

When my DC were young I was a mum volunteer at both brownies, cubs, and scouts.

The whole ethos of the scouts seem to change. It was traditionally male and lots of things had to change. Including having to have seperate toilets. It cost a lot to put in extra toilets and changing rooms. The group couldn't run if there were no female staff/volunteers. Games changed, as parents of girls thought British Bull Dog was too rough. The inital first camping was in the hall rather than outside.

The group DS was in was slower to admit girls but was presurised into it. Some Mums of girls thought it was 'weird' that intially the group was run by Male Scout leaders and that Dads volunteered.

It has run as a mixed group for a long time. It is a shame there are no longer Dads coming forward as volunteers.

It was considered equality.

Makes sense to just let the boy members out age it to me and not recruit any additional. But who knows.