To feel weird about Brownies because there’s a boy there?

[ElizaDolittle124]

Was invited to Brownies tonight to see my daughter do her ‘promise’. Was a bit awkward as it turns out there’s a boy in the group. Another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ The mum was v flustered trying to explain he wanted to join in and the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’ until she told him to be quiet.

I just feel a bit weird that I didn’t know. The whole reason we joined brownies was for the girls only environment, which my daughter was really excited about. Feel like I should have just put her in the scouts instead now (which would have been more convenient). But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space.

There’s a brownie camp sleepover thing next month where they sleep in dormitories. My daughter can’t go anyway as we have other plans that weekend, but it’s got me wondering how they’re going to arrange that? Surely they can’t have the boy sleeping separately in a room on his own, but equally he can’t go with the girls?

I agree re differences. However, re Cubs specifically..

That was true of those 2 girls : still, a lot of girls DO seem to want to do Cubs. If anything it seems historically there's been more issue attracting enough boys in recent decades, hence why it was opened up to girls.

That is really sad. Re jobs , what kind of jobs did they think were off-limits? It's depressing as women's employment representation is improving yet this doesn't seem to filter down : why?

It wasn’t bullying it’s typical toxic mean girl behaviour from dominant girls that think any girls that don’t look or behave like the stereotype shown on here or pack need to be squashed . So many other mothers have told me their girls have experienced the same. It thrives in all girl settings.

it hasn’t improved everywhere, far from it.

That's very bad re boys' activities automatically being given precedence due to their sex. I'm not sure how common that is though: I knew a lot of girls as child & teenager (Gen Z) who were driven around at weekends to music, ballet, sports. Which child's activities took precedence didn't seem to be based on gender (often siblings would do the same activity to avoid schedule difficulties).

'often dominating due to the huge social benefits of being raised male.' - what do you think the 'huge social benefits of being raised male' are? I'm not disagreeing, I agree about them. But wondering which you'd say are especially major? I do think boys being more encouraged to be assertive etc would be one that feeds into the dominance issue.

I've no issues with mixed groups, if they are specified like they are with cubs. 2 out of the 3 leaders when my son was in cubs were women, and his new leaders are one woman and one man.

Surely 'mean girl behaviour ' is by definition bullying? Sorry, I don't want to nitpick. But I've always automatically categorised that as bullying.

The worst stereotyping and unkind words my dd has experienced was from girls at her coed primary, brownies,girl guides and all girl secondary. Utterly ludicrous to suggest girls don’t comment on appearance , stereotypes or say unkind things. They are far often more obsessed with appearance- and frankly nastier.

That is really shocking. I wonder if it would look different if internet access weren't often a thing for kids of that age? There would sadly probs still be sexism but it has been turbocharged by the Internet.

Girls assault girls too.

Nope it happens everywhere. In the office, in schools - everywhere and girls get away with it without it being called bullying.

Yes. But I was never raped or impregnated by another girl. And no, i wasn't Brownie aged when that happened. But the csa had started.

Fuck me. Some people really hate girls/ woman having anything of their own don't they!

Yep when it encourages nasty stereotypes, unpleasant behaviour and frankly isn’t good for children.

Well it is bullying and it should be treated as such. Horrible...

How? It’s clever, sneaky and signed to squash girls
who don’t conform.

Come, on girls and women do commit rape but at vanishingly small numbers compared to the rates men and boys do.

Pp had a very valuable point re the safe space all girls spaces can often be for CSA victims and your response to her was deeply insensitive.

So what about the children like me who live with abusive males? Who gives a fuck eh? They don't matter. Collateral damage.

FWIW we did a lot of the same things at my GG units as my brothers did at cubs/scouts. They learned to sew and cook. We learned to make camp fire. Maybe my Brown Owl was just very progressive.

They physically assault a lot in schools.

So we did a game where we split room into three sections - men, women, both - and girls had to run to the section they thought when we called out a job or a hobby. Aside from a couple of girls who chose both for everything, the rest of the unit (about 20 girls) definitely favoured at least some stereotypes. I remember nurse being a female job, firefighter being male, footballer and scientist male, nursery teacher female, and so on. And then hobbies: dancing, female, football, male. There was some inconsistency too, some girls for example would say nurse was a both job but then firefighter was a male job.

We then sat down and had a discussion and they all agreed that many of them enjoyed and were good at science, football, etc and that many boys enjoy dancing and looking after people, but they struggled to explain why they then had chosen those specific jobs and hobbies to be either male or female.

Can I please ask that no one reports @2000Essays posts. I've had that happen before with other posters and I would prefer that they stand so people can see the reality of how csa victims are often treated.

Bullies often do try to hide their bullying, physical as well. I went to a girls' school and I know how this kind of behaviour is difficult to police but teachers/bosses etc shouldn't turn a blind eye and things can be done. Did no teacher at the school or guides try to squash the behaviour?

Right, and that's bad. But pp was specifically talking about CSA.

Going to an all girl school, guides or brownies is NOT going to stop you living with an abusive male. Frankly if you do tick the box of a nonstereotypical girl as laid out on here you’ll leave with far lower confidence and it will probably contribute towards poor MH.

It’s so widespread it would be impossible.

Ummm... I'm aware that I still had to live with him. But it gave me a couple of hours away from him, and other boys or men. I could fully relax and not be on high alert that that male might also be abusive.

I can't think of any friends who didn't have dads and/or brothers at home. There was a boy in the other club I went to. GG and another girls only group I went to were the only guaranteed male free spaces I had.

Girls that don't want/ need single sex spaces, or who don't like what they do at Brownies don't have to attend. But some of us do want/ need that.