To ask what makes one person interesting and charismatic and another a windbag?

[Chalo]

I was in the pub on Sunday with a friend, catching up. It was quiet and there was some football on one of the TVs, no sound. A middle aged guy was sitting alone at the bar and talking to the male and female barman / woman, both generally and about the football. It’s clear they were bored rigid by the chat; they engaged but just so much as they needed not to be rude, the conversation was very one way. He seemed to fancy himself as an expert, and he said he knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who works at the club who says this, that and the other.

It did get me thinking, what do some people have that makes them interesting and engaging? What do they do that the guy at the bar didn’t do?

I do appreciate the circumstances were a factor - the bar staff may have had other things to do than chat. But he was a windbag.

I also appreciate that what’s interesting to one person isn’t to another.

I think what I’m asking is why some people have charisma and what do they do differently?

I agree that it is much more than social skills or good looks-they certainly help to ease the way but charisma/charm is something that comes from within.

A pp said it is a skill like any other but I strongly disagree with that: you can certainly learn manner, smile, dress fantastically and speak and listen and that is all good but it doesn't mean that someone is now charming/charismatic. In fact, I think trying to learn it as a skill would have the opposite effect.

In the past couple of years, I have come across a woman with real charisma and they are generally few and far between. I've thought about what makes her have this and I still don't have an answer.

She comes along to our local music group with her DP. We all play for each other. Her DP is the pianist-she can't play so you would think that would put her in the shadow but it doesn't.

I'd say she is her fifties, overweight but with striking colouring and always smells delightful. She greets everyone with a smile, talks and listens , tells amusing self-depreciating stories and we all react to her. She is very well educated in the arts but wears it lightly and has a wonderful speaking voice.

All the things I've listed about her could be learned, practised and displayed by anyone but there is some thing there that cannot be defined.

I have no idea what it is because I feel that, just an inch or two the other way or if she were someone else with the same way, it could be a pain in the arse but she is her and it's not. I do think she sometimes turns it up a notch but the point is it is there to be turned up a notch.

So a very long post and I have no idea except to say it is real, I don't know where it comes from and it can't be learned, it's not a skill, it's a gift.

A few general principles:

1. good spontaneous humour
2. tells stories - not too long, but long enough, surprising enough , and told well enough told to make the listener want to know what happened.
3. spontaneous- you don’t feel they’ve said the same thing a million times
4. they are attentive to their audience. They are not being talked at, but with. That might mean it’s very interactive and the person is asking questions. Or they simply help the other person feel seen, even when they are actually doing all the talking
5. overall positive. It’s very hard to keep attention with negative stuff unless you are telling a ghost story at a campfire.
6. personal impact- varying voice tone and pace; eye contact; pauses; confidence etc….

There’s a sparkle in the eye and an energy and warmth about them.

I used to think that Barack Obama was a great example of someone who was naturally charismatic, but then I read that as a young man, he lacked confidence and wasn't very good at public speaking.

He said that he gained confidence by focusing less on himself and more on how he could help other people. And apparently, he improved his public speaking skills by practising a lot, becoming a better listener, making sure he knew his subject matter and truly believed in what he was saying, writing out his speech beforehand, and including more stories and fewer statistics. It obviously worked for him.

That is sad! But maybe it's a life lesson for the kids that they are in class to work hard and learn - not be entertained. Another life lesson is that whilst every teacher should treat you fairly, not every teacher is going to like you.

At secondary school, we occasionally had a supply teacher who kept the class entertained with funny anecdotes. But did he teach what he was supposed to be teaching? Only when it was the one subject he liked!

I don't think there are universally charismatic people, or rather not every charismatic person is liked by everyone. Boris Johnson or Trump would be examples of people who many love and perceive as charismatic, but others find them entirely awful.

I think speaking charisma is partly innate and partly learned. I know lots of good speakers, the best ones make it look easy (often by rehearsing), are humorous, and reach out to the commonality in the audience, but aren't afraid to shock or surprise them a little.

In fact, I think charismatic people often are risk-takers, they take the risk of telling a story and it falling flat, or starting a conversation and it going nowhere, or public speaking when they have a bad day, but they keep going and that's why they refine what works over time.

I can be somewhat charismatic when I feel like it but sometimes I can't be bothered or I'm just not with an audience that I'd gel with in which case I'd shut up and blend in. It's also possible to annoy people as well if you are like this. I'm not charismatic in daily life, only if the occasion calls for it, like public speaking, or at an event or perhaps when younger if out on the pull. It's like turning on a light inside somehow, but it's tiring being like that and often after speaking or performing, I'm knackered.

I think there’s a lot in what you say. A friend of mine is very well known in the local area, very well liked and definitely considered charismatic. He’s nice looking but nothing special. He’s a huge flirt but it’s not particularly or overtly sexual. However what I’ve always noticed is that he makes me feel like he’s pleased to be around me. Like my company is wanted and is appreciated by him. I can’t pinpoint exactly how - it’s not through outrageous flattery or anything that obvious. He has exactly the same effect on most people. The thing is that I know him well enough to know that actually he’s not really that nice as a person in the sense that he will rarely help anyone out or do them a favour and has demonstrated some objectively pretty reprehensible behaviour. There’s a definite selfishness there but he’s carrying it off somehow 🤷‍♀️. Even knowing him well I’ve never quite been able to get to the bottom of his apparently universal appeal. Even I still can get quite skittish around him, despite knowing beyond all doubt that I don’t fancy him, we wouldn’t be compatible in the romantic sense, he can’t really be trusted and in many ways I don’t approve of him at all. It’s quite mystifying apart from the fact that I feel more confident in myself when I’m around him.

My father is one of those who genuinely thinks he’s interesting and charismatic but so isn’t. Definitely a boring old windbag. Those who know him quite well no longer even bother to hide it when they roll their eyes as soon as he starts talking. If he starts on about football, for example, but is told (politely or otherwise) that the other person isn’t interested or actively dislikes football he doesn’t seem to care and just steamrollers on. It’s actually rather embarrassing because he doesn’t meet many new people to bore these days and the people he knows no longer have any patience for his dire monologues so have resorted to being outright rude both to and about him. I think it’s the opposite of the effect described above - he doesn’t actually care if his audience is interested or engaged, or about any of their opinions or experiences and doesn’t even pretend to. He wants to talk at rather than to or with and doesn’t seem at all able to listen to others or properly converse on a two way basis the way others do. I think he just wants to listen to his own voice. I absolutely do not feel valued or that my company is in any way appreciated when I’m around him. Other people’s attempts at contributing to any conversation tend to be rudely rebuffed or just ignored. There are wider issues with him including a complete obliviousness to social cues of all kinds, but as far as the subject of the thread is concerned, my experiences of my father and my friend certainly confirm the idea that how other people make you feel about yourself is key to their perceived level of charisma or appeal.

It’s all about the delivery, body language, all very subconscious and pitch and tone. If all of us that have posted here were asked to describe a simple situation with specific steps no two of us would sound the same. It’s an art form. My Mother was on stage when young, she could make anything sound interesting. I’m not at her level but am a decent yarn spinner. Have the ability to make people laugh. I’m not much of a writer sadly.

You cannot teach charm

You either have it or you don't

It has nothing to do with good looks

Charismatic people are just charming liars really, aren’t they? Once you’ve spotted how their stories are always ‘wow, unbelievable’, the doubt creeps in.

Agree with this. It’s very much who you are, not something you can learn. I have a friend who sounds similar to the woman you know. She’s very short and very plain looking but she absolutely shines wherever she goes and whoever she’s with. People absolutely love her. If I didn’t know better I’d think she was flirting with everyone (and that is probably what a lot of people assume 🤣) - man, woman, shop assistant, friend’s mother, colleague. She’s like it with everyone and it’s completely genuine. She’s funny, very good at situational humour, it’s all about the person she’s talking to, she makes people feel important and interesting, she’ll big people up but also gently take the piss out of them in a very harmless way that definitely falls into the banter category. She’s also not afraid to take the piss out of herself. She’s insanely positive, with energy like a puppy. Like your post described - and inch or two the other way she’d come off too intense or annoying, but she doesn’t - I think because of her humour and the fact she doesn’t drag conversations out.

I don’t consider myself inherently charismatic like her, but I can go into charismatic mode in the right circumstances eg. If I’m on a date and I’m attracted to the person, I know I want them to like me so my brain just seems to know what to do. I start busting out the funny stories, throw in some self-deprecation, make them feel like the most important person in the room etc. Same with if I’m trying to make a good impression on my colleagues at a new job or whatever. The difference is though that I’m choosing to behave like that & sometimes it takes a bit of effort. And if the other person is very shy or has a very different energy level I struggle. My friend wouldn’t struggle, she would be exactly the same with a socially awkward plumber who’d come to fix her sink as she would be with a super-hot, charming first date. It’s just who she is. I think what I’m trying to say is inherently charismatic people don’t turn it on or off depending on the situation or choose to behave in different ways dependant on who they’re with, charismatic is just how they always are.

I think the “charming liars” is unfair and incorrect. Several charismatic people I have come across don’t even realise they are and are genuinely nice people who are not trying to use their charm to get things for themselves.

There is a woman at my sport who plays for another team dont know her really but she seems so energetic smiley good natured and fun also attractive I can see people just gravitate to her and like her. When she arrives the atmosphere lifts. It’s a special thing!

Exactly.

Ditto the idea that the shy and unforthcoming are necessarily warm-hearted good souls because shyness is some kind of indication of niceness or trustworthiness. The shy and unforthcoming are just as likely to be awful as anyone else.

I don’t agree that it has nothing to do with looks. You don’t need good looks to be charismatic, but it definitely helps. Good looks have a magnetic quality, and I think charisma is a combination of these magnetic qualities (others might include confidence, intelligence, good communicator etc). You don’t need to have every quality, but the more you have, the better.

Donald Trump and Barack Obama are both extremely charismatic so I don't think it's anything to do with being a good person. Likewise I was at an event once when Boris Johnson arrived and within minutes of speaking he had sort of electrified the room.

I think what they have in common is an ease of interacting with people and absolute confidence in themselves.

I think what they have in common is an ease of interacting with people and absolute confidence in themselves

This is the point I was making about money, status and background. It's that deep, innate confidence is typically found in people who know that everything will be OK and a lack of 'what do they think about me' insecurity. This is most often found in people who were raised in a financially secure environment and have access to education and social circles that provides this.

I am not saying this is the only factor nor that no one who came from poverty has charisma, just that in the majority of cases this is a big factor. You don't end up with great internal self confidence if you are living hand to mouth and fear the bailiffs at every turn.

The most charismatic person I've met in real life has this really deep centred security - he doesn't care what anyone thinks about him but in a very relaxed and calm way. He came from a solidly affluent background, went to Eton then Oxbridge, married a hugely wealthy woman, walked into a high status job and has never had to worry about anything in his life. He has the best anecdotes because they invariably feature famous people and interesting locations, which makes everyone pay attention.

Agree. There’s always a “bloke at the bar”boring staff to death. Challenge is you aren’t in an equal footing as the other person can’t easily walk away and most people know that and keep the interaction short as they are self aware.

Also know a couple of older chaps who are charismatic in that they've got a lot of funny stories, no doubt there's exaggeration here and there, but it keeps people entertained.

One is a bit like Boris - he's got that shambolic , slightly chaotic thing going on. The key things are that his stories are about him muddling through chaos rather than in any way showing off.

Bill Clinton - also said to be very charismatic.

I agree with this. People who have high confidence and self belief are often people who come from privileged backgrounds. They are used to everything going right for them, and they over attribute this success to their own internal qualities.

They engage you in actual conversation instead of just talking at you. I've worked in all sorts of public-facing industries, and the people who are actually talking to you, having a back and forth and a rapport are the ones I liked talking to. The ones who were just using you as a silent audience for their bloviation because unlike their friends and loved ones you, a lowly service worker, can't run away or tell them to shut up... Those were the worst.

Boris Johnson is not good looking in any way and many people will not admire his views.

Kier Starmer is more conventional looking and many people will agree with his views.

But for a fun dinner out with no mention of politics, I would rather go with Boris-because I think and -maybe it's just me-that you would have a very good time-Latin thrown in or not!

They talk to people not at them.

The smile, take an interest in others and know how to have a conversation rather than provide a monologue.

I agree and I think people are conflating two different things.

There are the 'charming' people who I have learned to keep my emotional distance from.

And the genuinely charismatic people who don't have to do much to be the centre of things. Some of whom are manipulative like Boris Johnson is, and some of whom are not.

I know I sound like a deluded mother, but my son has quite often (in school reports and so on) been described as charismatic. He just has an ability to get peoples attention (adults and kids), always has done, and it is completely natural. To an extent my MIL is similar so I think he gets it from her. People will stop her in the street to make conversation; everyone wants to be friends with her.

I think it can be learned and improved throughout life if you are lucky enough to get honest feedback. That's half the problem, people are bewildered as to why they aren't liked and it kills their confidence because no one ever let's them know. Sometimes it's because they stand too close to people, that's all. Easily remedied.

An excellent piece of advice is to listen to the other person, truly listen not thinking about what you are going to say next and waiting for a pause to jump in. I find that hard, I'm not an interrupter but i am thinking about my next contribution.