AIBU to worry my nearly 5yo only wants to do fun stuff?

[LeopardSnow]

I’m struggling to work out whether my nearly five year old’s strong focus on his own enjoyment and avoidance of anything boring or effortful is normal for his age, or something we should be actively addressing.

My son is nearly five. He’s bright, extremely active, curious, chatty and cheeky. He can also be quite hard work. If anyone has read the Just William books, that’s basically him / who he will probably be in a couple of years. He’s hugely motivated by things that interest him and will put loads of energy and focus into them. He can also do long stretches of independent pretend play, sometimes up to an hour. He loves nature, science and learning about things that genuinely motivate him. Loves stories and making up games.

But…. ANYTHING he sees as boring, difficult or like work or that is not focused on him is a real struggle.

Examples of what I mean:

• He’ll be full of energy at the park but as soon as it’s time to walk home (5mins) is mysteriously exhausted and starts wheedling for a piggyback.
• He makes little effort to dress himself and if we insist will usually pay no attention and end up with everything on wrong and insist we help him, if we do help him he will go floppy so we end up physically moving his limbs into sleeves which allows him to carry on chatting or playing. He definitely can dress himself as he does it at school for PE etc, he would just rather not.
• He finds errands, and things like popping to the shops boring and will whine or get cross when we say what the plan is, then kick off or make trouble
• He moans about phonics or maths practice (5 minutes) although he is capable when he concentrates, unless it’s turned into a game.
• Won’t tidy toys unless we make a “threat” e.g. cannot go to the park until toys are tidy, or turn it into a game - beat the clock.
• If we do something that isn’t about him, like talking to each other or reading for a few minutes, or focusing on his younger sister he will sometimes interrupt or kick off to get attention.

For context, he has a little sister who he is sometimes lovely too, limited screen time - a low intensity programme for about half an hour a day and doesn’t even know what YouTube is or how to work a phone screen, we read a lot, he has a Yoto, and we do crafts and cooking and playing together, garden play, time alone with his Lego and animals and trips to the park and library.

What I am trying to work out is whether this level of self centredness and resistance to effort / anything that is not fun or about his own interests is typical at this age, or whether we should be doing more to build his tolerance for things that are not fun or about him?

I don’t expect a four year old to be selfless or driven, but real life - including lots of childhood involves boredom, effort, waiting and letting other people have attention, and I don’t want to raise someone who can only cope if everything is entertaining or about him and who shirks work / lets future partners carry the load.

Is this a normal developmental phase, a spirited child, or something we should gently push back on more? Any tips from those with older children on how this played out?

Sounds completely normal to me. It's more your reactions to it that are abnormal.
Whining for a piggyback? If you always said no, then he wouldn't whine for it because he'd know it wouldn't work.
Same with refusing to get dressed. I'd be having stern words about that.

I guess his teacher uses a different code. Maybe she just means high spirited as she’s also said he’s fairly compliant and tries very hard at all the compulsory bits. He’s excitable, and has big enthusiasms and definitely indulges in a bit of wild play outside, but for the most part he seems to be fitting in with expectations

Spirited children to me are usually ones who aren't doing what they should be doing and off doing their own thing e.g. always happen to be wanting to put things in their bag when it's carpet time, in groups doing something else other than the outlined activity (cutting and sticking making themselves whatever comes to mind). They are often up to some kind of mischief. They are great on their own and great personalities but in a classroom can be pretty frustrating if you have several of these children!

So what's the problem? Don't give in to him about the TV etc . Its normal to try it on sometimes but he doesn't have to get his own way every time.

Spirited is code for behaves badly ime.

Your list sounds very normal.

I can’t see if you’ve given his sister’s age but it’s very normal for kids to regress when a sibling comes along. Maybe the floppiness etc is about getting the sort of attention that the baby gets? Have you considered letting him wear his clothes incorrectly and see if he self corrects during the day? (I assume you’re at home today as it’s Sunday)

Are you and your h only children? Very common to feel sibling rivalry and want to divert attention away from your sibling. Is dd old enough to do the same back when ds is getting attention? That’s when the annoying bickering phase starts. Teachers will be getting that kind of attention seeking from a big percentage of the class - must be tough!!

You mention all the fun that your do with him like the baking. If he’s never made to be bored at home then it’s natural that he’ll always want fun.

Most humans don’t like the boring bits of life. I don’t like going to work but enjoy the money I’m paid , I like cooking but don’t like the cleaning up etc

make things fun
say Can you
rather can will you

speak in a positive tone

Spirited can definitely be code for badly behaved but it is about context (as with most things.)

Nothing wrong with making boring things into a game! DD liked competition, so a simple ‘I bet you can’t do X within 2 minutes’ and me counting on the clock she absolutely loved.
In her first two weeks of Reception (having shown no interest in reading before) she had 50 words sorted by me putting the cards on the floor with Smarties on and she got to eat every Smartie when she read the word correctly. Only simple basics like a, in, on etc but she was very goal oriented.

He isn’t badly behaved at school, teacher is happy with him.

Out of curiosity a question to all those who have said “spirited” is code for something like badly behaved, or ignoring the rules. Why would a teacher use code, when surely they just want the parent to understand what they are actually saying so the parents can understand and support the kid appropriate at home? If spirited is “code” for badly behaved, isn’t there a big risk lots of parents will go home thinking, ahh the teacher just said my kid has lovely high spirits, how positive…

I believe you sorry - I was replying to the poster who were saying ‘spirited’ means he’s badly behaved.

If the teacher is saying something like ‘James is a very spirited boy and this can mean he struggles to follow instructions’ then yes = naughty

but if it’s more like ‘he loves PE and spending time in the garden: he has a spirited and enthusiastic nature which means he participates with a great deal of enjoyment’ it probably just means spirited

reception/year one teachers dont want to make enemies of parents

Does any teacher, and I’m saying that as a teacher myself.

There is nothing wrong with a ‘shit sandwich’ (a couple of positive things either side of some shit.)

’Olivia is extremely loyal and caring and always wants to support her friends. However, this has led to problems: she is often involving herself in her friends’ issues during learning time and on occasion she has become rather argumentative and confrontational when reminded to stay on task. Her loyalty is a lovely quality but I would urge her to try to focus on the learning in lessons!’

That’s still clear but acknowledges the good qualities. It would be an absolute tear away who you couldn’t say anything positive about at 4/5!

I would say my DS wasn't like this at that age. For want of a better word he was compliant! If I had errands to run he just accepted it and trotted along with me, although quite often we would combine it with something nice. I'd say he was exceptionally well behaved though (only had 2 tantrums in total as a toddler!) but it's just his nature and I think he is at the extreme end of the scale. I'm not saying that to show off...the world takes all sorts. For example, life also needs risk takers and people who push boundaries in order to succeed, and DS just isn't wired that way.

Ignore them, I’ve noticed MNers like to tell you these things to basically knock you down a peg or two. I mean, you’re the one who knows your son, knows the school, knows the teacher and was there when the comment was made, but they of course think they know better than you what the teacher meant.
Anyway, I have one child who has always been compliant, considerate, thoughtful and caring, and one who is… less so. Now she’s 10 she is able to hold in the selfishness most of the time but given her way she’d still only do things that she enjoys or that benefit her in some way! She’s excellently behaved at school, consistently getting the top ‘score’ for behaviour and effort, but she’d always rather do exactly what she wants!

I'm a retired Reception teacher and I never used 'spirited' that way. I actually like quirky children like that I just didn't give in to them when they were unreasonable.

This is hilarious 😂

I’m 64 and i’m still like this 🤣

He sounds entirely normal TBH.

My elder Gdcs are 9 and 10 and we still have to impress on them - e.g. when Gds 9 is rolling his eyes in despair at having to endure 10 minutes of torture aka maths homework - that we all have to do things we really don’t feel like, and they’ve just got to get on with it.

Totally normal - my DS (now 7.5) was like this at 5 & still is - particularly the whinging about going to places he doesn’t want to.
A particular highlight was being told by his teacher that when the children were getting dressed/undressed for PE, DS would just stand in the middle of room with his arms out expecting the teacher/TAs to dress him! We very quickly sorted that out!!

I have this issue too.

I have a calm child who sits quietly using cutlery at the table, hands toys over to other children at playgroup and cries when I tell her firmly no.

She has her moments to be sure (she is two) but they are moments and soon dealt with

then ds … who is five and still eats with his fingers 🤦🏼‍♀️ and with his backside hanging on the edge of the seat and his feet on the table (tell him … I do … he still does it … we are down to ‘DS FEET!’) He creates such drama about tidying toys it is something I’ve had to shelve for my own sanity. And he is loud, noisy, pees on the toilet seat, charges around at 100 miles per hour, can be stroppy, argumentative and well, rude.

He can also be very caring, kind, polite, he has a great sense of humour, is forgiving and understanding (showed a surprising amount of compassion when he was bitten by a child with special needs ‘Oliver didn’t understand he was hurting me mummy’) most importantly does seem to do as he’s told at school but yes I am tearing my hair out with him. He’s also a child who brings out the madness in other kids as well as having it brought out in him: if he’s with a group of his pals it is manic and I have had to tell them off at various parties for just being too darn boisterous.

while I accept I may have had some subconscious bias in how they’ve been parented (more relaxed with no 2; perhaps treated boy/ girl differently without meaning to) it isn’t my parenting. Ds is ds and dd is dd and I guess they’re exactly who they are supposed to be

Mine are both girls and it’s the second one who is an absolute menace 😂

My 7 yr old isn't much 'better' than what you're describing yet. Your expectations are too high. Keep doing what you're doing and he will learn as he ages.

What I am trying to work out is whether this level of self centredness and resistance to effort / anything that is not fun or about his own interests is typical at this age, or whether we should be doing more to build his tolerance for things that are not fun or about him?

@LeopardSnow the answer is both. It's normal and age appropriate and any good parent will be encouraging them out of it. That's parenting. In the same way it's normal for a baby to not be able to walk, but you do what you can to encourage them and teach them to walk. Seeing if they can get away with doing as little as possible is normal, but your job as parents is to consistently push back on this. Don't carry him home from the park. Don't dress him. Don't allow the servant and master relationship to develop. Encourage him to take pride in doing things for himself, teach him that life is boring sometimes and methods to cope with that.

I love ds to bits but I am so grateful I had a second to know it isn’t my shocking parenting 😂

I do wonder sometimes if ds does have adhd … it’s troubling me a bit at the moment. I don’t think he does: DH reckons ds is very similar to how he was which doesn’t altogether reassure me I must say!

But then DH’s brother was the calm, placid child who grew to be a very withdrawn and unhappy teen while DH was filled with fun and devil may care … you just can’t predict.

It sounds like you’re too soft on him and he knows he can get away with what he wants to do or not do.

He needs to start learning that fun stuff comes as a reward and we have to do as we’re told and do the boing stuff to get rewards.

“DS you can’t have your TV time this evening until you’ve put those toys away in your bedroom like Mummy asked.”

“If you’re not going to get yourself changed that mean we’re not going to be able to go to the park.”