AIBU to worry my nearly 5yo only wants to do fun stuff?

[LeopardSnow]

I’m struggling to work out whether my nearly five year old’s strong focus on his own enjoyment and avoidance of anything boring or effortful is normal for his age, or something we should be actively addressing.

My son is nearly five. He’s bright, extremely active, curious, chatty and cheeky. He can also be quite hard work. If anyone has read the Just William books, that’s basically him / who he will probably be in a couple of years. He’s hugely motivated by things that interest him and will put loads of energy and focus into them. He can also do long stretches of independent pretend play, sometimes up to an hour. He loves nature, science and learning about things that genuinely motivate him. Loves stories and making up games.

But…. ANYTHING he sees as boring, difficult or like work or that is not focused on him is a real struggle.

Examples of what I mean:

• He’ll be full of energy at the park but as soon as it’s time to walk home (5mins) is mysteriously exhausted and starts wheedling for a piggyback.
• He makes little effort to dress himself and if we insist will usually pay no attention and end up with everything on wrong and insist we help him, if we do help him he will go floppy so we end up physically moving his limbs into sleeves which allows him to carry on chatting or playing. He definitely can dress himself as he does it at school for PE etc, he would just rather not.
• He finds errands, and things like popping to the shops boring and will whine or get cross when we say what the plan is, then kick off or make trouble
• He moans about phonics or maths practice (5 minutes) although he is capable when he concentrates, unless it’s turned into a game.
• Won’t tidy toys unless we make a “threat” e.g. cannot go to the park until toys are tidy, or turn it into a game - beat the clock.
• If we do something that isn’t about him, like talking to each other or reading for a few minutes, or focusing on his younger sister he will sometimes interrupt or kick off to get attention.

For context, he has a little sister who he is sometimes lovely too, limited screen time - a low intensity programme for about half an hour a day and doesn’t even know what YouTube is or how to work a phone screen, we read a lot, he has a Yoto, and we do crafts and cooking and playing together, garden play, time alone with his Lego and animals and trips to the park and library.

What I am trying to work out is whether this level of self centredness and resistance to effort / anything that is not fun or about his own interests is typical at this age, or whether we should be doing more to build his tolerance for things that are not fun or about him?

I don’t expect a four year old to be selfless or driven, but real life - including lots of childhood involves boredom, effort, waiting and letting other people have attention, and I don’t want to raise someone who can only cope if everything is entertaining or about him and who shirks work / lets future partners carry the load.

Is this a normal developmental phase, a spirited child, or something we should gently push back on more? Any tips from those with older children on how this played out?

Parents of children who are actually ‘spirited’, to use your euphemism, will be rolling their eyes. He’s not even 5 yet.

😂

Well his teacher describes him as spirited, and he’s on pretty good behaviour at school, home he is much wilder. What would “actually spirited” look like?

Two of my children have been “spirited.” It usually means “little shite.”

This made me laugh. He is clever in his efforts to avoid hardworking tasks.
Just keep telling him he is a big boy now and life isn’t always fair or fun. 🤩

Not everyone sees discipline in the same way, which is why I asked. Some people still see it as doling out punishments, which isn't helpful.

I’m sorry but this is genuinely very very funny.

he sounds perfectly normal.

in school holidays I didn’t bother making mine get dressed unless we were going out.

He’s 4, what do you expect 🙄

Spirited is code.

children vary massively in how compliant they are in social situations.

there are some reception children who are massively motivated by adult approval or motivated by doing the same as their peers.

these are the children who are saying “look at me mummy don’t you like my picture mummy” or are trying to literally sit on the reception teachers lap when she reads a story.

most children are middling motivated by adult approval but will fall in line if their peers are as ll doing something.

so if everyone is starting to move towards the carpet for a story they notice and want to do what the others are doing, and go and join them.

spirited children are more self directed - they aren’t really bothered about adult approval and either don’t notice or don’t care what their peers are doing.

these are the kids that when the rest of class is tidying up and getting ready to sit on the carpet will (for example) get out the duplo because they just had a great idea of how to build a train.

it’s not a bad thing per se but schools do rely on children wanting to do the same as their peers and on wanting adult approval to get them to do the activities that help them learn.
spirited children need much more adult intervention to get them to be in tune with the rest of class as they don’t notice/don’t care what their peers are doing and are more interested in their own ideas.

You’re doing better than us

My ds just pees all over the toilet seat, will absolutely not tidy up toys and I don’t think he can dress himself.

He sounds very articulate and adorable.

I think that most people are less tolerant of boredom, or doing stuff for others, or hard things, than they ever were to be honest.

It's normal for some children, all kids are different and some are very self motivated or "independent" and will insist on dressing themselves etc, others would do anything to avoid having to do it themselves.

I have 5 kids and they were all different in their levels of motivation/willingness to do things at that age. One of them was just like your little lad and wanted everything done for them, it was just a case of not pandering to it and eventually they learnt that they could whine all they want but they aren't getting their own way and sometimes they had to do the boring tasks.

Also as a pp has said "spirited" is usually code for a kid who doesn't like to do as they're told

Haha same. If I could get out working and chores, I would!

You've described my just turned 5 year old, which makes me worry much less about him. Maybe it's normal?

No OP, I don’t think this is that normal tbh. He should be able to dress himself surely? My 12 month old is even shown signs of trying to dress herself.

whats he like in school? What do teachers say?

It sounds very normal for his age. Kids actually don't have the frontal lobe of their brain developed - so it's actually impossible for them to not behave selfishly. He won't develop that capacity until he's older and his brain develops more - this capacity will keep developing until his early 20s. So you've got a while to go until he'll display more selfless behaviour (but it gradually increases throughout childhood). I'm concerned by you called him 'selfish' he sounds very normal for his stage of development. You will have been the same at that age

I think it is all within the normal range for a 4/5 year old. However, i do know lots of children who would be independent/compliant at things like getting dressed/doing h/w at this age. I hate to say it but they are mainly girls.
I do think it is important that he is gently guided that he isnt the only/most important person in the world and that he has to do things he doesnt like. But it sounds like you are doing that anyway.

You have one 12 month old and think you know what’s normal for a five year old; correct?

Yep and one that gets away with it.

I’m going to go against the grain here and say a lot of this would be the sort of things discussed in an ADHD assessment, but obviously when he’s significantly older, and only if problems continue, despite standard behaviour management/parenting techniques.

Basically, none of this would be considered pathological at age 5, without a huge amount more context, made up of his formative years and years to come. But there are some things in here that, if they continue, would be considered more and more ‘abnormal’, eg the demand avoidance, the complete frustration intolerance, and the ability to hyper focus vs not focus at all.

What precisely do school mean by ‘spirited’? Have you dug into that with them?

Wholeheartedly agree with this post.

I don't have kids but I've watched a lot of Bluey - this sounds completely normal

That sounds like me and I could be his granny 😂

Who doesn’t just want to do just the fun stuff. Who wants to do boring the shopping and chores 😁