To be shocked by this government dietary advice for babies and children?

[fourfoxsakes]

from the government in Northern Ireland that is published online? Surely we don’t do these things any more such as mixing baby rice with milk and advising people to feed their very young children rice crispies and cornflakes for breakfast and advising people to give juice with meals! Surely this is bad advice, I am honestly surprised that the government have been allowed to publish this crap. I have no doubt people still do these things which is an individual parenting choice but surely the government shouldn’t be advocating for this?

It used to be that way here too but things started to change about 30 years ago with PFI when private companies could compete for contracts in the NHS.

But you have to start from no/very low expectations.

Someone who was raised on frozen beige food, sugary cereal, mars bars and whatever else is not going to suddenly start cooking lentil tagines - but they might be open to something just as easy if they know it’s healthier - a bowl of cereal, watering down the juice they already have in the cupboard etc.

large scale behaviour change is (often) expensive, arduous and notoriously difficult, so I'm not surprised.

Ok but my initial comment was to address the idea that “ children dont like vegetables and lentils”. Im saying that this assumption, as a starting point, is false and shouldn’t be the basis of nutrition advice.
Plenty of poor people in this country and in other countries DO feed their children these foods. And there absolutely IS a culture in the UK of acceptance that poor people will live awful lives in every way. Which pisses me off and depresses me.
It would be better if we could begin with higher expectations of ourselves as a nation- including those people who we always seem to make an exception for (and who are therefore excluded from improving their lives). My mum used to work in a homeless shelter. She taught junkies how to make decent food, it starts with the will!

So you need people to be able to get to a supermarket, buy the meat and vegetables for their curry, buy the spices and oil or a ready made curry paste. These all need to be affordable for someone on a low budget.

They need access to a hob, a pot to cook the food, a sharp knife, chopping board, another pot to cook rice (or a microwave pouch) or some other accompaniment. They need the confidence to prepare the meat and vegetables for cooking and to cook them and know when they are ready. They then need to persuade their kids to eat something that looks, smells and tastes unfamiliar.

That’s quite a leap for someone who may be used to making packet pasta and sauce.

I’m teaching DD13 to cook, she has complex needs and it’s a slow, painstaking process not something she could master watching you tube.

Thanks @Clefable @vanillalattes @FruitWordSalad et al for your posts and links, much appreciated.

It’s is completely true there is no money to change anything anymore and no will from the taxpayer to try, not since Surestart. I don’t think most people realise how dire frontline services have become.

I’m a bit of a healthy food fanatic but I can’t see much wrong with the document as a whole.

i do agree that juice is not necessary for toddlers but very diluted with a meal is ok occasionally.
Agree cornflakes/rice krispies aren’t the best breakfast. Better off w egg/porridge/weetabix/yogurt and fruit/shredded wheat.

The weaving advice is fine, they’re just saying give the baby rice with a bit of milk. Although we pretty much went straight to purées (20+ years ago).

The charity sector is trying to plug the gaps but there's only so much that can be done on a shoestring, by volunteers with limited training.

Oh, don't be so bloody miserable. It's cereal and juice, not gin shots and cocaine.

Did they actually think it was a good breakfast? Or was it just a case of enticing her child to eat after surgery which can be difficult?

A lot of typical things can go out of the window when your child is in hospital and doesn't necessarily mean it is the done thing at home.

My son had tons and tons more screen time than usual as an example.

This thread has so many mumsnet cliches it’s ridiculous. Everyone’s an expert on nutrition ( or so they think) UPF, sugar, fruit, carbs,snacks all demonised. Everyone has to eat a protein filled breakfast every day even if you have work or school, get up at 5am!! Only ever drink water.

People not understanding how others eat, how privilege, finances and education play a huge part. I work with deprived families. That meal plan/advise would be a start…. some really have no idea.

Her son wasn't even out of surgery 12 hours and there was no mention of him needing to eat, he was still on fluids. I'm not of the chia pudding/nut butter ilk, but even I wouldn't think fizzy drinks and a heavy chocolate bar would be appropriate. She was concerned the anaesthetic was curdling in his stomach (not sure what that means) and that was why she wanted him to eat, not because he was hungry or needing to eat.

You go and feed yourself rubbish if you want and this helps you feel better about that, regardless of your personal views the NHS shouldn't be promoting processed rubbish of zero nutritional value other than what's pumped into it artificially.

I grew up on a diet of frozen beige food.

my mum couldn’t cook. Neither could her mum.

my mum was better than my dad though as when she went away for a week we had takeaway every single night. I still remember it and that must have been 1985.

my mum did learn how to do packet pasta, and she did a bloody good curry (had spent time in Africa) but only had about five meals she ever cooked from scratch.

when I went to uni I learnt from cookbooks and friends. Honestly, it isn’t very easy to learn. Not if you are trying to do it from a book and there’s no video and you don’t know what half the words mean.

i’ve got a lot better, mostly by trial and error and I have done some cooking classes but teaching yourself to cook is not the easiest of things to do.

It is definitely child dependant. My son would've lead a riot if he was without food for 12 hours after surgery but was allowed to eat.

Of course, very different if the boy didn't feel like eating anything. After my son's surgeries, they always wanted him trying to eat something if he was allowed to eat.

Life should not be dull for six month old babies because they don’t have juice.

Mine had numerous surgeries and fizzy drinks as the first thing was always a no no. That's not really the point though, as I said I'm not overly healthy and partial to a bit of junk food myself, but labelling a fizzy drink and mars bar as "a good breakfast" is shocking.

So your mum could cook then? A bloody good curry from scratch isn't simple (I'm not talking about curries that use tinned tomatoes and a spoon of curry powder).

You do realise this leaflet isn’t from the NHS, right?

That poster is talking about cereals being fed to inpatients in NHS hospitals.

That’d be a fun breakfast! 😂🤪😜

I don't shop at Waitrose no, I use Aldi for all my seeds and nuts as it's by far the cheapest. I buy flax/chia/ cashews and mixed seeds from there. My DC eat chia pudding for breakfast because they've been given it since they started weaning.

I have taken on a lot of points from this thread but acting as though everyone who feeds their kids non processed foods must live in Kensington doesn't help the conversation either.

I fully appreciate that there are things I hadn't thought about and have taken that on board, and I do think there is more nuanced discussion to be had which include not demonising other foods.

I'm not the OP so can't comment on the salmon. Avocado is full of good fats and baby and toddlers need lots of good fats to support brain development.

It actually looks pretty balanced to me. Every day has a mix of dairy, fibre, fruit, vegetables and protein; and avoids being too repetitive. (The potato bread made me smile - I miss potato bread.)

And it's a guide - people are supposed to use it as something to aim for/give them an idea of what balanced eating looks like and adapt it to their life. e.g. DS and I hate bananas, so we don't eat them. But I can replace banana with another piece of fruit. Ready made cereals can easily be replaced with porrige (with or without different toppings for variety and a chance to get some extra nutrients into meals) etc.