In wanting Mumsnet to help Judi Dench and Joanna Lumley

[GiantBranch]

Last week, Israel banned 37 international aid organisations from operating in the strip, including Oxfam, Save the Children and Medicine Sans Frontieres (MSF). MSF delivers one in three of Gaza’s babies, and experts warn that immediate action must be taken to prevent a catastrophe.

It has prompted more than 100 leading members of the arts, including Dames Judi Dench, Imelda Staunton, Joanna Lumley, Sienna Miller, Suranne Jones and singer Paloma Faith, to sign a letter urging popular online platform Mumsnet to join them in demanding urgent government action ensuring maternity care is accessible in Gaza.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-baby-birth-judi-dench-letter-b2896981.html

In practice, any healthcare workers provided in Gaza by the Israelis would have to also be covered by a looooot of IDF. Like every medical clinic would need to be crawling with them. Hamas wouldn't agree to that.

This is if there were even enough clinicians willing to go in the first place. One of the many ways in which 7th October was also terrible for Gazan civilians is that Hamas targeted Israelis who wanted to work directly with Palestinians, people like Vivian Silver and Oded Lifshitz. They knew full well what they were doing, of course, and the consequences have been predictable.

That’s a ridiculous comment. Everyone chooses where they choose to focus their energy.

And if it were about women being denied maternity and health care then they would also be campaigning for Afghan women. But this is not about women at all - they are just pawns and the people signing this letter are supporting the actions of Hamas whether intentionally or not.

Why are these prominent women so silent about the Iranian women and men now rising up against the oppressive regime? That's a much more pressing issue right now - the internet is down and phone lines cut by the regime to prevent their own citizens communicating so high profile voices in the UK would be helpful.

It couldn't be perhaps because that oppressive (especially to women) regime props up Hamas could it (to be specific with military aid for Hamas, not resources for women and children)?

The uprising in Iran is grassroots, people trying to take their country back. Women's rights abuses in Iran are extreme (i remember you Mahsa Ahmani)
and well documented.

This is an area where western people speaking up might make a difference, whereas it seems right now more likely - in my opinion based on the evidence - to make things worse for civilians in Gaza. Given how polarised and political it is and how rarely western activists seem to bother to understand the actual situation for Palestinians civilians e.g. the fact that not all of them are necessarily in favour of Hamas and western activists propping up Hamas might actually not be in their long term best interest - particularly if avoiding death and suffering is the aim. Hamas have explicitly made it clear preventing death and suffering is not their main aim.

this campaign is about trying to pressure the UK government to in turn pressure Israel to stop suddenly preventing well respected aid agencies such as MSF from doing their work in Gaza and to avoid the devastating impact this ban will have on maternity services.

this thread is not about Afghani-women”s maternity care because the Taliban allows MSF and similar aid agencies operate in their territory.

None of these agencies are “propping up Hamas,” they have been providing aid and medical support services in Gaza up until this point, are well respected, and been doing similar work for years all over the world.

it is about a single possible to remedy situation that if unaddressed will directly increase the suffering of pregnant women and children

it is not about, Iran, Afghanistan, Azerbiaijan, Wales, Greenland, …….any country you wish to include. I will happily back any campaign those concerned wish to set up to improve maternity care for women anywhere in the world, I think women are poorly served generally but think banning aid agencies from continuing the work they have been doing for example MSF have been supporting 1 in 3 births is to allow avoidable suffering of women and children who have already been through enough

It's baffling though that out of all the ways they've chosen to focus their energy they've chosen to focus it on exerting pressure uniquely on Justine

Strange for women who must have a network of publicists and media types at their fingertips to feel that they needed to single out an individual to run this campaign for them rather than just getting on doing it themselves

The Taliban allow aid agencies like MSF access to Afghani women and children

https://www.msf.org/afghanistan

I'm not at all sure this is still true. Most of the information on their webpage pre-dates the most restrictive bans on women being HCPs, and receiving care from HCPs.

It's quite worrying actually - the latest post I can find is from Oct 25 talking about how women cannot now access any healthcare unless they wear a burkha. There is very limited information and they do not address the question of whether they are able to provide care to women and girls as well as men now. I could find an article with only men pictured talking about caring for men in 2025 - the lack of women was a bit concerning.

I wish MSF(and other aid agencies who say they're working in Afghanistan) would explicitly address this - there are certainly reports that aid agencies have been denied access to help women in Afghanistan.

The LATEST date on the webpage you've posted is 2024. A lot has changed for women and girls in Afghanistan in the past year.

I mean since women wearing the burkha is to prevent men seeing their bodies and there is now a ban on females working as HCPs it raises the question of whether there is anyone to treat them even if they do turn up in the hospital in a burkha. And what happens to any HCPs who might provide this care.

Oh actually, I did just find something else from 2025:

New restrictions limit access to care for women in Herat | MSF

At the Islam Qala border crossing with Iran, humanitarian organisations are witnessing similar challenges while bringing care to returnees who have been expelled from Iran. Out of more than one hundred female staff who previously worked there, only three - a midwife, a doctor, and a nurse - are currently permitted to work, under strict conditions requiring them to wear a burqa at all times.

So it appears that no, the Taliban are not really allowing humanitarian staff to treat women. That's a 97% reduction in female staff who can treat women.

If they're also strictly enforcing the 'no men treating women' rule this leaves Afghan women and girls without care.

I wonder why there's not more media noise about this. Maybe Joanna Lumley and Judi Dench could do a letter?

For the 3 remaining female HCPs at the end of 2025, I'd imagine trying to do any kind of complicated medical care WHILST WEARING A BURQA would be a) very difficult and b) quite unhygienic.

MSF still have access to the country no?

I think yes there should definitely be more attention given to the dire situation of Afghan women particularly in relation to education and maternity care. There should definitely be a campaign and I am looking forward to seeing and supporting anything that comes from the deep concerns expressed on here

I would just think the same concern should be extended to Palestinian women through the existing campaign
it is possible to care and campaign for multiple things at once,

Not for women or maternity care, no they don't. Why don't you care about these women?

Compare the maths 97% fewer HCPs that can treat women in Afghanistan in Herat. And those that remain have to wear a burqa.

Only 15% of NGOs are refusing to provide the evidence that would allow them access to Gaza.

Gazans still have far more NGOs that can provide care TO WOMEN than Afghanistan.

I do care about Afghani women I have just said so I think the two situations are appalling, I would definitely support a Mumsnet campaign for Afghani women. This thread and my post is about an existing campaign to stop the banning of well respected aid agencies from accessing Gaza and consequent harm of Palestinian women and children who surely we all can agree have already suffered enough

Thank you for continuing to engage on this thread and consequently raising it’s profile

“Israel’s new ban on dozens of aid organisations working in Gaza will have “catastrophic” consequences for the delivery of vital services in the devastated territory and will put Palestinian lives “at imminent risk”, diplomats, humanitarian workers and experts say.

Thirty-seven NGOs active in Gaza were told by Israel’s ministry of diaspora affairs on Tuesday that they would have to cease all operations in the territory within 60 days unless they fulfilled stringent new regulations, which include the disclosure of personal details of their staff.

“Aid organisations said they had been engaging with Israeli officials for many months.
“We have made strenuous efforts to comply even if these demands are made nowhere else. We do extensive vetting ourselves. It would be disastrous for us to have any armed combatants or people linked to armed groups among our staff,” said Athena Rayburn, executive director of the Association of International Development Agencies, which represents more than 100 NGOs operating in Gaza and the occupied West Bank.
“We have such strong measures in place already and have proposed alternatives to the Israeli authorities that would meet this requirement, and they have refused.”

“One senior UN official said the ban would “cripple” relief operations. Israeli laws banning Unrwa, the main UN agency dealing with Palestinians, from Gaza had already had a significant impact, they added.

Rayburn said the ban would bring about a “catastrophic collapse of humanitarian services”, and that Israel authorities had been made “fully aware” of potential consequences.

Under the 20-point agreement that allowed a fragile ceasefire to come into effect in October, Israel is obliged to allow “full aid” to be “immediately sent into Gaza”.

Why isn’t any of your ire aimed at Hamas?

And from the same article in the Guardian, 2 interesting quotes:

"Israeli officials said they had given ample warning to aid organisations about the new registration requirements and that about 15% of nongovernmental organisations working in Gaza had not had their permits renewed."

"In its statement on Tuesday, the Israeli ministry alleged that an investigation had found that MSF employed two individuals with links to Palestinian militant groups: an alleged sniper with Hamas and a member of Palestinian Islamic Jihad."

"The pregnant women of Gaza" mantra hides a few inconvenient truths, doesn't it?

OP, you seem very well-intended and full of compassion, but I think you are being played and instrumentalised by people whose motives have nothing to do with helping women and girls.

edited typo

Thanks for making it even clearer that you're missing the term 😁

I am not aiming any ire anywhere I have said this thread is not about who did what do who. it is about possibly trying to improve the current situation of pregnant Palestinian women

I do not think I am being played I understand the situation I just thought perhaps the plight of pregnant Palestinian women would be something the majority of women could support and want to see improved,

Why don't you start a thread about it? Everyone can see what you're doing. Everytime someone tries to talk about Gaza people like you detail the thread with multiple posts about all the other things OP should be posting about (as if a thread about every world crisis would even be efficient). You sound really clued up on Afghanistan and Iran.and like you'd be amazing organising a public campaign for support for their maternity care! Maybe you should start a thread and an open letter and post all your resources there? You could contact any public figures you want support from on social media.

Because you do actually really care of course and are taking practical actions yourself to raise awareness and funds and support right, so it sounds like posting in this particular thread about it is the way to get it off the ground.

Have you even read what the registration requirements are? Giving notice doesn't mean anything, youre and others are being deliberately vague and acting like they just need to give the names of their employees when you know it's not true. And after Israel have murdered hundreds of aid and healthcare workers, many of us don't have much care for Israel "alleging" of anything and we would prefer that the NGOs can continue to do anything they can to support women and children living in hell.