DD disclosed abuse by DS(ASD)

[Tornbetween2children]

Firstly I don’t know where to post this so I’ve put it in AIBU.

Six years ago my DD (who was then 15 and had gone completely off the rails) disclosed that she had been sexually abused by her brother when she was 6 and DS was 18. DS is autistic, and now lives in supported living many miles from our area.

I asked her if she could tell me what had happened and she said that she couldn’t. So I asked her if she’d feel able to talk to a therapist about it, which she agreed to and was in therapy for about a year. I also asked her if she wanted to report it to the police. I made it clear to her that I believe her, I’m on her side and I will support her with whatever she decided. She considered it for some time and decided against reporting it.

At the same time I confronted DS, who claimed to have no memory of it happening (this didn’t surprise me, he has always claimed that he can’t remember things when confronted). I made it clear that supporting his sister was my priority and even though I will always love him, I hate what he’s done. I told him that he couldn’t come to our home again because our home is his sister’s safe space and it can’t be safe for her if he’s around. (He had already moved out by this point, I didn’t kick him out). I also offered to pay for therapy for him too, but he refused.

Six years on DD is doing very well, has settled down and is at university. She has never talked to me about what happened. We never mention DS, I took down all the pictures of him, if other family members bring him up in front of her I quickly change the subject. It’s like he never existed.

I have little physical contact with DS, though we speak on the phone regularly (when DD is out). Sometimes we’ll meet up if I’m up his way. It makes me feel intensely guilty.

I have always tried really hard to bury my feelings for DD’s sake, she is the most important person in all this. But it is killing me. I feel torn down the middle. I don’t even know what happened, how frequent, how bad it was, so I tear myself to pieces imagining the very worst. I even got therapy but my therapist told me they’d have to stop because they couldn’t help me - there is no solution to this.

Members of my exH’s family are bad-mouthing me, calling me a bitch because I never have DS to stay at Christmas etc. I just have to take it on the chin to keep the secret. It’s breaking my heart that I can’t be there for DS as I should be. I love him so much, but I hate him too.

I was a victim of child sex abuse myself, and I was also so overprotective of DD, never let her go on sleepovers etc, and yet it still happened under our own roof. I’ll never forgive myself that I didn’t protect her.

I just feel like giving up. I don’t know what to do. I can’t keep on like this.

That doesn't change the fact that he has the potential to be a danger to others and frankly should be on the sex offenders register. She has to lice with her choices but I do wonder if she woukd have been so quick to not eport and press charges if he didnt have autism.

If he didn’t have autism he would be free to come into contact with whoever he wants. As it is, he never leaves his flat. And when he has to, for hospital or doctors appointments, he has a carer take him or he just wouldn’t go. Where exactly is the potential for him to be a danger to others?

He functions at the level of a 7/8 year old. Surely that makes a difference?

Did you not read her posts? He does not go out, he is never unaccompanied and most importantly, this is her DDs decision and her right to choose what happens. Where is the risk? If he was living a more normal life I would agree there is a public safety issue. But since there is not. DDs wishes need to be paramount. Or are you cavalier about retraumatizing her? Would you insist every rape victim must report what happened to them? Plenty of victims of SA dont report for various reasons.

You are a lovely mother.

You are an excellent mother. I take my hat off to you.

This is so sad. I'm very sorry you are in this situation and I think you have done the very best that you could. I think I would probably go and visit him, I think you say you do see him sometimes? And just keep it at that. As for extended family, take no notice. I take it they don't visit him, but they could if they wanted to.

What a horrible situation. I do think that it does need to be reported; you mention that your son’s carers are predominantly male so that means that on occasion they are female. They deserve to be kept safe. There should be a risk assessment included in your son’s care plan. It would be hideous if he did it again.

No one except the daughter (who was 6) knows what he did and she won’t tell anyone. What exactly would you be reporting?

Echoing others that you've handled this all remarkably well and I take my hat off to you. A member of my family disclosed childhood sex abuse from her stepfather and her mother chose to side with him, losing her daughter and grandchildren and living with a child rapist.

I'm really sorry that some posters are determined to make you feel even worse than you are. Don't feel you have to defend yourself - you've done a better job than they clearly ever would.

We also have to remember unreported sexual assaults outnumber false allegations by huge amounts !
we have to believe girls and women in sexual assault cases as overwhelmingly the odds are they are telling the truth.

I think your done a great job. You believed and supported your daughter, you gave her the freedom to make her own decision about how to move forward, you got her appropriate support and therapy. You didn't take away her autonomy.

I understand why your conflicted about your son. You love him and you have a responsibility to him because of his disability. It sounds like he wouldn't be able to be help criminally responsible if they did an assesment for fitness to stand trial. I think things will become easier when DD moves out of your home and lives independently. You won't have to have hushed conversations or be worried about her noticing you're out of the house and realising you have gone to see DS. You can love him and be disgusted by his behaviour at the same time. Both things can be true.i think keeping them separate and your relationships separate really is your only way forward.

I'm a victim of CSA and I was made to have contact with my abuser. I was never left alone with him again, but I still had to see him. My parents told the family members with children but didn't do anything legally... you know family shame and don't won't to ruin the family name. He went on to rape and SA several of my cousins. No one has reported it to the police even now. I've always felt let down and like I was unsafe and my safety wasn't prioritised. Also that my cousins weren't safeguarded. I have a positive relationship with my parents but thus comes up regularly for me. I didn't address it with them. Thet were really young at the time and I don't think they knew how to navigate the situation.

OP, I hold your hand 🩷
I too was SA as a child by my dads mums next door neighbour who’d we’d spend time with when staying at hers (I can’t call her my nan because she made me swear I wouldn’t tell anybody when I told her what happened and haven’t spoken to her for years). One of my biggest fears is any degree of this happening to my children so from that perspective, my gosh I feel for you. Absolutely horrific. And even worse being your son, I just do not know how you’re holding everything together. Please, please find alternative help. There will be somebody who can handle your situation. I’m absolutely lost for words, I’m so sorry you are dealing with this, especially alone. 😟

And this is why it should be reported, regardless of who it is and what their problems are. Look at this string of events, heartbreaking. So sorry you went through this. 😔

I am so sorry you are going through this. I honestly think you are doing the best thing. Your son and daughter have no contact with each other and that's the important thing. I don't think you'd be wrong to cut off your son, but there's also nothing wrong with maintaining some contact. I hope all three of you can have peaceful and fulfilling lives in unique and individually appropriate ways.

@Tornbetween2children
I was sexually abused by my older brother for years as a child, I only told my DF after my DM died, by which time I was 52. I wrote to my brother telling him never to contact me again, and told my DF I was never having any contact with my brother again. I didn't expect my DF to cut off all contact with my brother because he's still his son, and I believe that is too much to ask of a parent, just that I didn't want to see, or hear about my brother again. My brother has no special needs, he's just selfish, arrogant and entitled.
I think if this was Uncle Bob who used to babysit then by all means cut him off. But this is your DS and it sounds like you are all he has. From what you say he doesn't have the capacity to understand the harm he has done to your DD, and possibly doesn't even remember it. In the circumstances it does seem very harsh to me that you see so little of him, but the way I read it is that you feel you would be betraying your DD by seeing more of your DS. But it's eating you up that you're aren't there more for your DS.
I think maybe discuss with your DD the possibility of you visiting your DS more often, with the promise that he will never ever come to the house while she lives there ie she will never have to worry about seeing him.
This is such an unfair situation but it's unfair on you and both your children, and I feel for all 3 of you. I hope you manage to find some peace.

I've been watching your post all day OP, and have been reluctant to comment because I don't know what I can say that will actually help.

A lot of mumsnet won't understand the complexities of autism or learning disabilities or how lacking capacity isn't black and white as in he either has complete capacity or he has no capacity which is not true. He can have capacity in some areas but not others and this capacity can fluctuate, and so I was expecting a lot of posts that were very polarising which doesn't seem to have happened as extremely as I expected.

A lot of mumsnet will also have experienced sexual trauma, as it's a site made up of mostly women, and it's a very emotional topic to engage with.

I think it isn't necessary to your daughter to explain what he did because the traumatic outcome is still the same. Her trauma is very real, and her boundaries have been asserted and respected which you should be so proud of yourself for.

It does matter to you though, and you're allowed your own boundaries too. You understand his capacity better than your daughter, and you're allowed to decide for yourself what level of engagement you want to have with your son. You're not a monster or an apologist if you want to be in his life more, and still respect your daughters boundaries of not having him in the house.

It sounds like back then he was not very well supported and the risks were unknown whereas now he is in the social care system with safeguards in place, and is living an isolated life.

Whilst what has happened can't be undone, it's a completely different situation to the one he was in at the time of the abuse.

You didn't have to make the call but he is already living a very imprisoned life. It's the best place in terms of keeping him and others safe but it's not a life filled with freedom.

You are allowed to make choices here that are right and the best for you. It doesn't have to be all or nothing or less or more. Just whatever you feel is best for you.

I was sexually assaulted when I was 11 by an adult with learning difficulties. I didn’t know him. My parents called the police but once people realised about his mental health they dropped it, and brushed it under the carpet. No one said I didn’t deserve it or it wasn’t my fault. No one asked if I was okay or needed therapy. OP, I don’t have any advice but I wanted to say I think you’ve done an amazing job. You are a wonderful mum and you did the best possible thing in the worst possible situation. Please do seek another therapist. Any guilt you feel is ultimately pointless, it doesn’t help your DD, or your DS or you. And you deserve a happy fulfilled life.

But we have no definitive information.
That's why some people may feel it appropriate to suggest further information.
I absolutely believe that people who report abuse need to be believed unless proven otherwise.
Very sad story for all concerned

There is a potential danger to the carers. Do they know this information so that they can risk assessment appropriately?

Carers and supported living workers are trained for people who display these sorts of behaviours.

Intimate care is supposed to be 2:1, sexual behaviours are documented and redirected in communal spaces but not discouraged in the homes entirely as it is ultimately the service users home and they're entitled to explore their bodies if it isn't causing anybody any harm just like you are in your own home, and risk assessments are done both regularly and on the fly when supporting service users out of the house as public indecency can and does happen, but doesn't mean service users should be held under lock and key.

Carers are also able to call the police against anybody they feel may be committing a crime even if it is a service user, however they are usually just referred back through to social services once the danger has been de-escalated to discuss better placements or more funding to prevent these sorts of scenarios happening, but the reason they should be trained in these sorts of behaviours which are common sensory seeking behaviours, to behaviours that are done due to poor internal risk assessment or social awareness, is so that they can de-escalate without further intervention or the use of force.

This all sounds awful OP what a sad situation,
however I’d personally tell the judgemental family members exactly the situation and cut contact with your son. He was 18 and autism is no excuse.
I would also report it myself as he could still do it again and he COULD have already done it again and not reporting it isn’t the right thing to do for anyone. This is a better idea than getting a knock at the door and it being a huge shock. Please do the right thing.

I think the biggest issue is a lack of understanding about the severity of what happened. Also if it was a one off incident or repeated.

My autistic 11 year old kisses me all the time, and he'll lean forward and just kiss whatever is in front of him. For a while that was somewhat awkward when he was at breast height. He had enough insight to always apologise, but wouldn't think about it beforehand. Thankfully he's now outgrown that problem 🤣

I doubt a 6 year old would have the capacity to understand motives and consequence correctly to process what might have happened in some circumstances. Although if it aas a more serious SA that's entirely difference. Hence having an understanding of what happened is important.

This is really sad, but it’s actually very common op, there was a guardian article about it

To the people saying report it, what do you hope for that to achieve that isn't already being achieved?

He's now in supported living where safeguarding and risk assessment are done regularly, where, believe it or not, sexual behaviours do happen. Adults, even disabled adults with no impulse control and a lack of social understanding do still have sexual urges and act on them.

He doesn't leave unless escorted.

He has no personal freedoms.

He has a limited capacity for understanding his behaviour and how it impacts himself and others.

What do you think the police would even do? What would being tried in court or being convicted achieve? What would being imprisoned achieve except possibly greivious bodily harm to him, a lack of medical care, an increased risk of self injury and trauma through an inability to learn or understand why he is there?

Justice doesn't look the same for everybody and his personal freedoms have already been taken away from him.

On top of that it would be dragging OPs DD through the system of having to relive the trauma she has acquired, against her consent.