Thread 22 : To feel disappointed - and now disgusted too - after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

NO POSTS PLEASE UNTIL THREAD 21 IS FULL

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

First thread: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Links to threads 2-16, the other 20 Observer articles and videos to date, Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement, our timeline and sources can all be accessed in the OP and first few posts of Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5403285-thread-17-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Links to threads 18-20 can be found in the OP of Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5460943-thread-21-to-feel-disappointed-and-now-disgusted-too-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Most recent:

• Salt Path: A Very British Scandal, available from Monday 15th December Sky Documentaries and NOW TV
• ‘Don’t look for the money. I’ve taken it all’: Salt Path author Raynor Winn’s ‘confession’ that she stole from her family | The Observer

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with drive-by scolders and ploppers who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. Over 6 months we have done amazingly well together for 21 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

After 21,000 posts there are still new things to look out for on the path ahead:

• Observer Newsroom: The Real Salt Path Story, Thursday 8th January 2026 6.30-7.30pm. More information and to book via this link observer.co.uk/our-events/the-real-salt-path-story
• Podcast series from The Observer's award-winning Investigative Journalist Chloe Hadjimatheou, 13th January 2026
• BBC Podcast (NB Not involving Our Chloe)

Keep to the path, no saltiness, eat fudge and drink cider.

NO POSTS PLEASE UNTIL THREAD 21 IS FULL

That's a wonderful idea @Uricon2, I frequently find myself on bits of the Monarch's Way and never knew that's what it's named after. Maybe you could publish an account of the walk called something like The Stately Progress!

@ThisQuirkyRaven Firstly, is there a reason that this was crowd funded when (I assume) SW could afford it? A Journal by The Gigspanner Big Band and Raynor Winn — Kickstarter share.google/pA3zlcbU60pIvHSOD Saltlines: A Journal by The Gigspanner Big Band and Raynor Winn — Kickstarter share.google/pA3zlcbU60pIvHSOD

Well there is another group of people who have been taken for a ride - she was a multi-millionaire by then. I can understand that Gigspanner wanted to broaden their appeal but ....?

Hence the Royal Oak pubs? Is that when he did that?

See you learn so much on this charabanc.

the gigspanner journal link doesn’t work for me, though….

Yep, the Boscobel Oak. Cromwell's soldiers were hunting below and he was in the tree with Colonel Careless, who fell asleep and he had to keep prodding and holding him up so he didn't fall out to the feet of said Commonwealth soldiers..

@Peladon I am doing the mythical snorting of drink down nose at that! @SimonArmpit yes, great book.

Saltlines: A Journal by The Gigspanner Big Band and Raynor Winn — Kickstarter

@DoubtfulCat that is indeed the origin of the Royal Oak pub names. Also the 'Black Boy'. Many have (understandably) fallen into disuse because of some of the images used, but very many originally were named for Charles II, whose nickname was "the Black Boy" because of his very dark hair and eyes.

@ThisQuirkyRaven thanks for sharing that Guardian article. A sobering and sad lesson in what happens when all the medical advancements that have saved countless lives are discarded because someone else knows 'best'.

@OnlyAfterwards I mean, whatever about publishing snide stuff about unidentifiable strangers, it seems like a weirdly aggressive act to pillory in a memoir a relative who did you a huge favour. Same as the treatment of Warren Evans/ 'Grant'. It seems like a weird, vengeful tic in SW's writing, to put down people who were kind to them? Unconscious resentment?

@HatStickBoots The interlude with Grant in her book is particularly bizarre and one of those things that wouldn’t work in fiction unless the author was being deliberately funny. So, some readers may raise an eyebrow but accept it (along with everything else). She’s invented a different scenario here, not to protect ‘Grant’ in real life but to showcase yet more of Raynor’s insecurities despite the strength of their relationship.

I think we've often shared how weird the Grant episode is and I have been thinking of the two interesting posts above, shared earlier today, combined with the following, from my notes on Thursday evening:

Chloe said that, when she was first contacted about the Winn/Walkers, she had not heard of TSP. When she read it she describes (what Mark Kermode said that the film is about) their love story. I would not have thought of it like this (I have scribbled down 'strange comment') but, she went on to say, how their love elevated them above everyone they met on the SWCP.

I think it would be interesting to know how much involvement her editor at Penguin had.

It may be that Salray got into a position where she had to either admit she was lying or continue, and her inclination is to add to the lie with a bigger lie.

I'm reminded of a time in Brownies, we were playing a game where the leader asked a question (eg who was born in June of July?) and threw a ball, and if the answer was "yes", you tried to get the ball.
I'm a slow runner, and not particularly good at catching, so I had very little chance of getting the ball anyway, but all the questions Brown Owl asked, my answer was no. So I decided the next one I would go anyway, just for the fun of moving.
"Who has done some shopping for someone else today?"
So they asked the question, we scrambled for the ball, and as luck would have it, the ball bounced off someone's foot and landed literally at my knee. I couldn't have not grabbed it without it being clear I was deliberately not taking it, so I took it. Brown Owl asks "did you shop for mum" (which might have been believable), and I went into a long story about how I'd gone to buy a toy car for my brother - so clearly a lie that it was probably seen through by the entire room. Brown Owl pretended to believe me, and at pick up time I was desperate to make sure I got Mum home before Brown Owl said anything and found out I'd lied.

I wonder if it was a bit like that.

Salray submits the story of walking the path as a basic story. But when she sends it in she writes a query letter that is designed to get sympathy.
She explains how they were homeless, and Moth wasn't well, so she so hopes they will accept her story.
It isn't a part of the story that she is expecting to get public, but she's using it to hope that an agent will feel sorry for her and look further (like me going for the ball, not expecting that I'll have to justify going for the ball).
The agent however sees this as a potential story so asks about it. She has to answer (like me having the ball land directly at me). So she embellishes the homeless (it was just so mean and not our fault at all) and Moth's condition (making it terminal) thinking that makes it more sympathetic and more likely to publish. (like me - embellishing it thinking it sounded better)

The agent then tells her that the story is publishable, but only with those details to make the books sellable. (she didn't have the option of grabbing Mum and getting away).
But she's then in a position. Does she admit she made those two things up and then the agent will not want to work with her to publish the book, or does she add it to the book with the risk of being found out?

And she chose to add it to the book.

So it wasn't in her plan, but once she'd told the initial lies, she couldn't stop it going public without admitting it wasn't true.

@MargaretThursday : given your reaction at the time, and the fact that you still remember it, it's clear that you are a scrupulous person with a conscience.

Lol.

It's funny. I don't remember playing that game any other time, or any of the other questions, but I remember that one. I think we played it quite a lot.

I was convinced that Brown Owl would say to Mum something like "what a kind big sister, taking her own money (that I didn't have) to run down to the shops (Mum would never have let me) just to get the toy car (that the shop I chose almost certainly didn't sell) that her brother (who wasn't interested in cars at all, let alone toy cars) was desperate for".
For some reason I thought the more details, and the more exact I was the more believable it was. If I'd just nodded to being asked if I'd got something for Mum, then it would have looked at least possible,
🤣

I agree and their feelings for one another may be the only part of the story that isn’t made up. It’s certainly been backed up by those that knew them when they got married. As the reader, you do get the feeling that she’s invited you to witness first hand how special they are and how lucky they feel to have found each other. Their relationship in her words, is unique. In the book she looks down on other couples. According to her, if you’re doing the weekly shop together or anything domestic it is mundane and therefore so is your relationship. She relentlessly describes her feelings for Moth and I certainly got the impression that although she comes across as smug and superior she’s also terrified of losing him. Her terror is supposed to be a measure of how much she loves him. This fear of loss is related to his imminent death but also a continual fear of other women turning his head.
The decision to walk TSWCP was never an irrational one with her defying doctor’s orders (IRL) or even an attempt to fulfil a bucket list desire before his demise, so all the flowery prose and emoting has been made up. The truth was that they had indeed lost their home, Moth wasn’t ill enough to warrant priority on a housing list and they were stuck in a very bitter situation of their own making. This reality would have been enough to crack their relationship but it didn’t. This makes me certain that they were always performing together with the robberies and the schemes to deceive.

So impressed by your ability to talk backwards@ThisQuirkyRaven, you are quirky indeed. You could answer backwards when someone asks you to repeat something, they didn't quite catch.
Thank you for the info about the crowd funding, I suppose they wanted to continue the, down on their uppers thinking, and take more money. The last piece you shared is a good example of people wanting to profit, propagating dangerous ideas, capable of causing injury and death. When someone first told me about the freebirth ideology I was shocked, it's worrying that people have lost faith in maternity services to this extent.

I too would like to know if others had input into TSP @MargaretThursday, was Salray given advice, or encouraged to write in a particular way. I saw an article a while ago about lying, it said that you should keep it simple, as you say, if you had gone with, shopped for mum, it would have been believable. But I still think it would have troubled your conscience, as @Peladon said, you have scruples.

Is it love @BeaveringBrandy and @HatStickBoots, or is it just a funny phase their going through? it's been a long time, lots of people are impressed when couples have stayed together for so long, it makes their deep love for one another more believable. The way Salray wrote about Tim, could have made Tim more attractive to other women and increase her insecurities, it's all very strange.

@MargaretThursday I think there is enough prior form from SalTim to suggest that they -most likely - jumped in feet first with the deception from the beginning, rather than being led into including it, or telling one lie that then led to another, almost against their better judgement. I suspect they have no better judgement. You, however , clearly have a conscience and a good standard of behaviour, hence the episode of lying is still seared into your memory however many years/decades later.
For someone to have embezzled -repeatedly and deliberately stealing £64,000 from people who welcomed them into their lives, takes a totally different mindset and lack of conscience. Not to mention the stealing from 2 sets of elderly parents, the gaslighting all those portrayed so badly in TSP.

Having said that, I think Penguin hold a lot of blame and I wish they could be scrutinised, or would even own up to mistakes were made.

On another note, thank you to whoever it was for picking up CH saying that their love for each other elevated them above others. It's interesting psychologically. It seems they do feel above others, superior, but not just in a standoffish, snobbish way. They actively put others down and grind them into the dirt. Is this a great big inversion of the truth? How much of the negative behaviour and thoughts attributed to others is a reflection of themselves ?
And how genuinely wonderful is their relationship? They may be close and super-entwined, but not in a way that is healthy. For them or for those around them.

@Uricon2I'm so sorry you have been so unwell. And then caring for your DH being bedbound, for many years (if I remember correctly), that makes the cosplaying of devoted carer even more of a kick in the teeth.

I read an article on the BBC about a serial fraudster this morning
The beauty queen who caught Scotland's most prolific catfish - BBC News https://share.google/kFPRhDrUjTA3WjBYY

When considering how likely it is that they are a couple uniquely in love, one of the things I'd take into account would be how reliable they are (or aren't) in what they say about other things.

I will buy this if you write it up and publish it for Kindle! It'd be much more enjoyable than the salty story. And you definitely deserve to stay in nice places along the way - as would be all. I am not one of life's campers, but then I've never claimed to be, in any form including a bestselling memoir.

Agree with you @OneThousandThreads with your reflections on @MargaretThursday ’s interesting post. I have exactly the same thoughts. I know Sal would latch onto any ‘get out of jail free card’ and that excuse would be one of them. I think Sal has been practicing this art for a long time.
@Uricon2 I also feel so much sympathy for your situation and everything you are going through with regard your own health.
I love the term ‘cosplaying’ to sum up what these charlatans have been doing. I’ll also buy your book if you write it and wish you the best of luck with your plan to walk that route, it sounds wonderful.

I haven’t been able to open the Gigspanner links unfortunately.

@Peladon yes, that thought is at the back of my mind too, that nothing can be trusted.

Apologies if this has been posted on previous threads. The 108 comments are worth reading particularly ones from people who met SW and TW.

theladynovelist.substack.com/p/like-a-moth-and-raynor-to-a-flame

WRT @MargaretThursday and the idea of Sal being persuaded to load the story with more and more lies, I suspect that many of the biggest fibs were in the manuscript in the first place, because I don't think her writing is strong enough for the manuscript to have been accepted otherwise.

Agents get LOTS of on-spec submissions. I mean LOADS. I remember in the old days of the slush pile (when everything was sent by post), and seeing pictures of heaps of post that agencies were getting EVERY DAY. You have to be pretty extraordinary to get picked up by an agent in the first place - or, at least, have a story that is so commercial that it's bound to earn money. Agents are, after all like publishers, in the game for the money.

So I think Sal must have at least hinted at misery heaped upon misery in the original manuscript in order for the agency to have picked it up in the first place.

Thankyou @AgitatedGoosethat is a great article 🙂. The idea of Normalising fact checking really resonates with me. Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen in science either, particularly when money can be made from a product; the pharmaceutical industry being a prime example. For anyone interested, here's a great TED talk by Ben Goldacre about bad science and the media. Unfortunately, as a teacher I am am witnessing the decline of critical thinking first hand 😢.

In various interviews Sal has claimed that:

• she wrote TSP as an aide memoire for Moth to help him remember the walk
• it was based on margin notes made by Moth in PD's SWCP guidebook
• she presented Moth with a 40 page first draft of what was to become TSP on his birthday
• their daughter suggested she flesh the m/s out and write a book
• she started writing TSP in Sept 2016
• the first draft was completed in March 2017
• she re-edited it several months later
• she sent the BI email in the summer of 2017
• TSP was published in March 2018

This seems v unlikely for a number of reasons: the margin notes in PD's SWCP guide don't read like notes written at the end of each day's walk. They read like notes made by somebody preparing a book. It's curious that Sal's IG account (Raynor Winn) had its first post on 23 Oct 2016, in tandem with GMC's first IG post the following day. This suggests to me that Sal had already contacted GMC in Oct 2016 which suggests that she had already written the bulk of TSP by then.

This suggests to me that she didn't therefore present Moth with some rough jottings about their walk on his birthday (July 2016) because they were walking the SWCP at this point. Maybe Sal had been writing TSP from a much earlier date, possibly 2015 and that the visit to the neurologist in June 2015 was part of a clear strategy to juice up the contents of a fictional travelogue which she had been thinking about for some time. By her own admission, she met the Parsons at the FAC in Aug 2015 to get additional material for a book, having (she claimed) already walked that stretch from west to east.

Just a theory, but maybe she submitted a first draft to GMC in late 2015/early 2016 and GMC then suggested walking the rest of the SWCP, which they did in July/Aug 2016.

I don't know if GMC would have suggested walking the rest of the path but they might well have asked for 'more local colour and some more local descriptions', which could have prompted S&T to go back.

Most agents would be reluctant to ask for as much of an input of time and effort as 'walk the rest of the path' would be. They have to take into account that most people subbing their first book have day jobs, families and a lot of ties on their time and can't just down tools to go off walking...

...will you listen to me?! I'm behaving as though the Walkers had day jobs! Ignore me.

@SimonArmpit It's curious that Sal's IG account (Raynor Winn) had its first post on 23 Oct 2016, in tandem with GMC's first IG post the following day. This suggests to me that Sal had already contacted GMC in Oct 2016 which suggests that she had already written the bulk of TSP by then.

Thank you for setting out what we know about this clearly. I remember being particularly unimpressed by the Poole to Polruan walk, the bits I saw described in TSP. when I thought this so-called travel writing couldn't be any more unlikely. I remember that collection of photos that were shared in 2016 and thinking I thought they did bits at different times - and it was pointed out that doesn't mean they took the photos then. We had the Yr Wyddfa trig point (being passed off as the Golden Cap one) and a photo of the tent pitched so that you could see Queen Adelaide's Grotto (which would be the most unlikely and busiest pitch in that whole area).

I now think of all 5 of her books as all just the same story. This one narrative is all about how:

All of her actions can be explained as being for him

Her husband is helped and restored by her

Moth is her home and that is all the home she needs

@Uricon2 could write a book, it does sound much more enjoyable than TSP, but who would she trust to help her publish it?

The publishing world looks so cynical to me now, with all that I have learnt about it over the last few months. I think I still had a romantic view of it, now completely expelled. I have always been more suspicious of the involvement of the agents GMC, JC in particular, rather than the publishers.

Salray must have approached JC first, after looking for an agent, JC was advertising that she wanted that kind of book, she was linked to misery publishing, JC listed the kind of thing she was looking for, specifying the categories. I think she must have had at least some suspicions, but could see the money making potential, and went with it, giving Salray all the help to get it published and earnings an awful lot of money.

It makes me laugh when you call Salray's lies fibs @Vroomfondleswaistcoat, my nan used to tell us as children the order of lying, fibs were like little white lies, these were acceptable as long as they were to be kind, protect someone's feelings or other noble reason, but not for gain. A lie told for other reasons would lead to a sore pimple in the mouth. I don't think Salray cares about others particularly, her lies are definitely pimple makers.

* Uricon2 could write a book, it does sound much more enjoyable than TSP, but who would she trust to help her publish it?*

I'm planning on PRH @Freshsocks . I think they'll love the bits about dragging poor DH behind me on a stretcher purloined from the NHS and the periodic visitations from the ghost of Charles II spurring me on. After all, they seem happy to take accounts at face value.

I was thinking about this last night. Charles recounted the escape story several times, once dictating it to Samuel Pepys. There seems agreement that there was good consistency between his accounts and they were backed up/expanded by some of the people involved. The details I find fascinating, the collision of someone who was well...King, even if on the run and ordinary people who often had very little and the relationships that formed. For instance, the first thing that had to go for his disguise with his long hair were his fine riding boots and boot stockings, because no farm worker or servant would possibly own such things. The rough shoes they were replaced with caused him a lot of pain and foot issues are a recurring theme at the start.

He seemed though to cope with the privations and the constant threat of capture and death with rather better grace and humour than Salray ever manages and made lifelong and genuine friends of the people who helped him, rather than whining about them.

I suppose this has all been a good lesson in how to get a book published, we take our outrageous offerings to PRH. Seriously though, it sounds like a cracking good story @Uricon2 particularly if you keep the ghostly visitations :)