To be depressed that lockdown would happen again tomorrow if there was another new disease

[Pavementworrier]

We talk about all the things that are worse "since the pandemic"but government prep is based on all the same mad nonsense that caused the worsening

Grim

People were impacted in all sorts of way, including from the lockdown. There’s no ‘selfish’ for one side on this. Just one side accusing the other of it when damage was more widespread than that.

Some of the most selfish contributions on this thread have come from people who expect that they'd actually be able to lock down in the event of something really contagious and deadly. Just no thought at all for the sacrifices that would require of other people, and the reality that they aren't remotely guaranteed that.

The reality is, in March 2020 I was on emergency planning meetings watching countries around the world go into lock down and the overarching feeling was that the uk would never comply… but we did when it actually came to it. It would depend on so many factors and the evidence shared.

What would you consider the most selfish standpoint/s to be, then? Genuine question.

I wouldn't have minded lockdown so much, if it wasn't for all the other aspects of it which were cruel, inhumane, and unnecessary:

Deliberately frightening the pants off the public. (Their words, not mine.)
Enriching themselves with PPE contracts, which nobody will go to prison for.
So many pointless and confusing rules, many of which probably prevented no infections, yet caused real suffering, such as closing playgrounds for months on end, or people being unable to say goodbye to dying loved ones, or to hug each other at funerals, while Boris partied.
Partygate.
Actively encouraging the public to grass on their neighbours.
Actively discouraging people to take exercise.
Bespoiling our landscape with "social distancing" signs everywhere. As if there wasn't enough publicity!
In Wales, making some purchases more ethical than others.
Blaming children, and using them as pawns, calling them "vectors of transmission".
Deciding policy by leaking ideas to the press, to test the public reaction, for example "Masks might become compulsory in shops." "There might be a circuit breaker lockdown." The government never had the guts to make a decision, explain it, and own it. Boris was too eager to please everybody, so he ended up pleasing nobody.
Complete refusal to admit that lockdowns were causing harm.

I do believe that the lockdowns helped to prevent the death toll from covid from being higher, and that they helped prevent the NHS from becoming completely overwhelmed.

It seems logical to me that, without lockdowns, we would have had a lot more infections, and a percentage of these infections would have resulted in hospital admissions and therefore more deaths. We would also probably have more people with long covid, and as someone who has had their quality of life severely impacted by long covid, I would say the fewer people who have to suffer this, the better.

But, if lockdowns were to have to happen again, I would sincerely hope we have learned the lessons from Covid and would take far more and better steps to protect the people who were harmed by the lockdowns.

I don't think there's the slightest chance of this happening as the powers that be can barely admit that any harm was done.

If ‘COVID’ happened again, we would do a lot better!

But, sadly, whatever comes next, which may not be for a century, will be subtly different in all its parameters, and they also won’t be immediately known, so the response will still be chaotic.

It is impossible to be cool and calibrate a perfect response in such an uncertain situation, and you will always have to err on the side of safety at first.

Optimistically, as technology improves, hopefully vaccine creation can be telescoped into months and not weeks.

*months if not weeks

Although if Covid did happen again soon we would do far worse because we’d not have the funding to shut down sectors and get through it.

It’d be a much bigger mess than arguing over a week earlier or not, where behaviour changed massively anyway voluntarily.

If it’s something else then it’s a different issue. Maybe a symptomless virus that lays dormant for a while and then knocks people out. That’d do it. There’s a game that simulates pandemics, I haven’t seen it but heard of it.

I'd love another lockdown. Only got eight weeks off first time around.

Well it could happen, and people would comply if it was something pretty lethal. I still think lockdowns were sensible at the time as the Government have to be cautious. Yes it caused big issues too, but I don’t regret following rules and trying to keep my family safe in a world of unknowns. But there’s no point worrying about what if’s. I’d be more worried about a war than a lockdown, I mean i’d take a lockdown over some alternatives.

I think they would just resort to heavier handed methods and people would just fall into line.

They wouldn't need to be heavy handed if schools and shops were closed. Many sensible people would want to stay at home anyway until more information on hospitalisations and deaths.

Schools and shops are not the only places people meet, so if there was enough social mixing on to get contacts up then it obviously becomes a relevant issue. It's neither here nor there whether anyone judges those people sensible or not. Nor is it just about wanting- some people might prefer the idea of staying at home but feel they had no choice but to use informal childcare networks, for example.

That said, I don't think the pp is right about heavy handed methods and falling into line either. We would only have another lockdown again if people wanted to do it. There's not enough of a coercive apparatus to be heavy handed with 70 million people who aren't mostly willing, so in that scenario it just wouldn't happen.

Obviously there are other ways but mixing would be conserably reduced and easier for those who want to wait and see what happens to do so. Hopefuly those that actually have to mix e.g. healthcare Professions and shop workers would get effective PPE next time. People want to effectively volunteer to be infected first can do so.

It would be lower than if schools and work were still open as normal, assuming we put into place necessary infrastructure like furlough and some school places for particular workers. That doesn't mean contacts couldn't still be high enough for transmission to occur. Can't assume another pandemic would be with a virus/strain that had similar transmissibility to covid 19.

And it doesn't follow that another lockdown would mean people who wanted to wait and see would be able to do so. There's no guarantee that everyone who wanted to shelter at home would be able to do so. Wasn't the case in the last lockdown, some still had to go out and work because for whatever reason furlough wasn't open to them.

You might also get a "car lockdown" (in one form or another) if the oil issues in the Middle East go on long enough.

That had better include the celebs this time then. No car transport to do live TV like This Morning.

I havent forgotten Strictly going ahead with them all looking glam while us plebs couldnt even get a fucking haircut.

The problem with the last lockdown was ppe was inadequate. Obviously there is no guarantee that everyone who wanted to shelter or get adequate ppe would be able to do so and that is my only concern. I wouldn't care about those who catch the virus because they choose to socialise. They can risk their lives if they want to.

I didn’t agree with the lockdowns in the first place. Luckily I was working in a supermarket so wasn’t stuck at home.

Your concerns are your business. My point was that shops and schools being closed doesn't mean people don't mix or that the transmission rate can't be a problem. Which is why lockdown probably isn't possible if enough people don't want to do it. I don't tend to engage with whether people show concern for others behaving in a particular way or not, because it wouldn't have any impact on the general picture.

And Formula One racing??????????????

Exactly if people were bleeding from their eyes and anuses all the 'oh im too important to follow rules' brigade would be inside sharpish.

But this would be a completely different situation. There would be no 'lockdown' with essential workers obediently trotting out to work to keep the lights on and the food supply going. They wouldn't be risking it. We'd be trying to stave off societal collapse.