To be depressed that lockdown would happen again tomorrow if there was another new disease

[Pavementworrier]

We talk about all the things that are worse "since the pandemic"but government prep is based on all the same mad nonsense that caused the worsening

Grim

Agree. After all the shit that kicked off last time,I doubt whether many people would comply. It was a massive opportunity for all the little Hitlers to flex their muscles. Plus the damage it did to the economy,with thousands of job losses, and children falling behind at school. I think it would be very difficult to get the general public to cooperate as much as last time. Although there is always going to be a sizable minority who absolutely love lockdown.

It damaged one of mine very badly indeed. He has ADHD and is mentally fragile for a number of reasons. He couldn’t cope with education by Teams and he couldn’t cope with having his entire social support network cancelled overnight. He’s still not really fully over it. It was horrendous for so many people.

I would STILL comply with a lockdown/other protective measures if a new disease was dangerous enough to merit it. If the alternative is lots of people losing their lives, then it would be insane not to. The fact that protective measures have a damaging effect on some people isn’t a reason to rule out ever using them again, in any circumstances.

The vast majority of people who complied did not love it.
I am pretty confident if a virus of unknown origin and impact struck again most people would comply with recommendations.

You do realise the next pandemic won't just be Covid again, right?

You have a fair and sensible attitude, sprigatito.

I am sorry your son was so badly affected and know a couple of adult people who went through a lot during lockdown. I felt terribly sorry for children having to go to freezing schools with windows open, sorry for the teachers too. I couldn't have coped with that.

However the majority came through unscathed and have almost forgotten it by now. I must admit I can't remember exactly when it ended without looking it up and it seems like a lifetime ago, though I kow it isn't. For me it was a blessing in disguise, I was newly widowed and didn't want to engage much with others; it was a relief not to have to. I was however aware that it meant hardship for some.

Let's hope there is no need for such drastic action in the future, certainly near future, but it could happen and I would comply.

Many people are saying all the lockdown rules were unnecessary and we were conned about it but why? There was nothing to gain, some businesses went bust and there's been an economic recession ever since.

It damaged my dc really badly and I’ll never forgive the Tories for the way the pulled up the drawbridge to mental health services for young people and left them with nothing during it and after. Whole year groups never got to sit exams, eating disorders doubled and the percentages of those who struggled with their mental health were massive. It was an online back door for child abuse too and domestic abuse increased. Some are still dealing with the aftermath.

Many people are saying all the lockdown rules were unnecessary and we were conned about it but why? There was nothing to gain, some businesses went bust and there's been an economic recession ever since.
@LBFseBrom Indeed. What do we actually have to show for the pain of months of lockdown? Have we "built back better?" Many people still died, and probably many of those people died from months of LOCKDOWN, not Covid. The only good thing I can think of is that there is now much less blind trust in politicians, especially "funny" ones like Johnson. And yes, I do think it's a good thing if the public trusts government less, and holds them to account more. Blind trust in the word of a politician is how dictators get elected.

Yes, I know, there's an argument that "a short, early lockdown" would have prevented the following extremely long lockdowns; and this may be true. But I do think that a principal reason lockdown dragged on for so long was because the government frightened the public so much, that they couldn't stomach the idea of normality returning. I think the government would have liked to reopen schools in June 2020, but people were much too frightened for this to be politically possible.

@scalt ,

‘Yes, I know, there's an argument that "a short, early lockdown" would have prevented the following extremely long lockdowns; and this may be true. But I do think that a principal reason lockdown dragged on for so long was because the government frightened the public so much, that they couldn't stomach the idea of normality returning. I think the government would have liked to reopen schools in June 2020, but people were much too frightened for this to be politically possible.’

Lockdowns are a matter of mathematics. You know how infectious the disease is (or estimate it), you have an idea of how many hospitalisations you get per number of cases and, of those, you know how many need ICU. And you know how many doctors, nurses, hospital beds and ICU units that you have. So, you have to stop infections rising beyond a certain level.

And you have measure you can take, between closing retail and schools, suggesting limiting contact numbers (rule of 6 etc) and full lockdown. And, of course, there are trade offs. The harsher the lockdown, the shorter you need to do it for.

And the more limited the freedoms when you ‘unlock’ the longer you can keep going until you have to lock down again.

They got the delta strain (if I remember correctly) wrong at first as they assumed a far higher hospitalisation rate than what occurred. You will always have to err on the side of caution, though.

Lockdowns are the only effective response to a novel pathogen. They aren’t optional.

Whether they are necessary also depends on the population. Japan iirc evaded much of what happened elsewhere. Perhaps the obesity level was a factor or cultural elements.

@EasternStandard ,

They didn’t have to as their hospitals were never in danger of being overwhelmed.

They took plenty of lesser measures, though, including shutting schools and dissuading social outings. And Japanese society is very different to ours, still. They bow at a distance, face masks are normal if you are ill or even want to avoid illness, and they are a much less tactile society. Most importantly, if asked to avoid contact, there will be social pressure reinforcing the government message.

And, you are right, they are a thinner society and most had the BCG vaccine, that may have been protective.

They also have a far more effective medical system.

But they still thought about lockdown and, had their cases risen past a certain point, they would have had to.

Our medical system came close to collapsing even with lockdown, so without it one can only imagine!

I agree, @Newbutoldfather - I firmly believe that the lockdowns kept the hospitals from being completely overwhelmed, which would have been completely disastrous. I think that, at the time, and knowing what we knew then, we did our best, as did the Government and the authorities. Was it perfect - clearly not - but I do think it was better than the alternative - Covid infections spreading unchecked, no hospital beds for any but the very sickest, and many, many more deaths.

I do think that we need to learn the lessons from the Covid pandemic, and the measures that were used to control it, so that, if (or when) something similar happens, we can protect people’s health, keep the NHS from being overwhelmed AND avoid the awful effects on children and on people’s mental health, as much as possible.

I don’t disagree with any of what you say. So many lives, especially young lives, left in tatters because the government we had during the biggest public health crisis in modern times was a cynical kleptocracy led by a popularity-obsessed after-dinner speaker with all the moral integrity of a starving rat.

don’t agree with those who are claiming that lockdowns are always unnecessary, or that people should refuse to comply with them on principle. I do agree that we were badly let down, and that it’s our vulnerable young people who are paying the price.

https://www.massgeneralbrigham.org/en/about/newsroom/press-releases/covid-19-during-pregnancy-linked-to-neurodevelopmental-disorders

Maybe we need to consider this too.

Flu does something similar, so it's not that big a surprise if covid is doing the same thing. And it's not like covid replaced flu, either - now we've got both, so even more risk for pregnant women. Possibly it's time to see pregnant women as more worthy of protection.

I'm not so sure about the 'young lives left in tatters' bit though if I'm honest. It's a tad hyperbolic for me. Like the feminists who say modern day Britain is a dystopia like 1984. We're hardly talking about the fallout from WW1. No doubt some have suffered but it's mostly people on here that bang on about it. Very few young people talk about covid anymore.

Military conscription like in Ukraine would be something to worry about. Same if Trump invades Greenland and NATO respond or if Russia start lobbing missiles at us.

Our then 16/17 year old spent 16 months isolated because of his clinically vulnerable dad, his sixth form years.
I can assure you that the negative effects on him and peers in similar situations are not hyperbole.
At 22, he is only now gaining social confidence that he was unable to develop in those formative years.

Oh, those pesky feminists, eh? How much better we'd all be if they all got back in the kitchen and stopped having opinions... 🙄

I honestly think we have far worse than lockdown to worry about right now watching what’s happening in America and the untouchable ICE (SS) officers.

What's that got to go with the UK

You don’t think the global political landscape will impact the UK? 😳

It's irrelevant to lockdowns of any type

And tbh if countries stopped poking their noses into other countries business then the world would be a far better place

Btw what do the ice officers have to do with the UK?

Trust me schools and MH services are still talking about it.

The political landscape in USA hugely impacts on the uk and them having essentially SS soldiers shooting people with no accountability is part of a bigger picture - like how Germany was before WW2. Huge impact on the wider world.

Past tense perhaps but if there’s another pandemic and we’ve all used most resources on dealing with covid it’ll be very difficult to maintain society. Especially if it’s riskier to more people than covid.

Best bet is a long break before another pandemic.

Let's hope so. Because we simply couldn't afford to lock down again now, though that may be moot in that there may not be any space for a 'Goldilocks' disease in the current cultural climate.

People wouldn't comply with a lockdown as the amount of selfishness and self interest since the last lockdown has gone through the roof.

Nobody cares about other people anymore , people just do what they want.

I fully expect the next pandemic to be much worse due to the entitlement and stupidity of a new anti -science ' no one tells me what to do' population.

Unfortunately you’re probably right. From reading this thread, many selfish people only thinking of themselves.