To be depressed that lockdown would happen again tomorrow if there was another new disease

[Pavementworrier]

We talk about all the things that are worse "since the pandemic"but government prep is based on all the same mad nonsense that caused the worsening

Grim

Many would choose to comply to protect themselves and their families in the more affected groups. Anger and frustration came from those who didn't think they needed to comply as Covid was luckily mild for them. Enforcing lockdown for all again wouldn't be possible without police/army being involved. The vulnerable are generally seen as worthless (see those with well managed mild chronic illnesses being put on DNR) so we're not going to be in it together.

I'd happily stay in to prevent getting coughed and spat on, barked at on public transport by random "healthy" anti-socials taking their frustration out on anyone who dared to wear a mask.

Why would you worry about something that might not happen?

@scalt ,

‘Did the government ever tell us "the virus is not as deadly as we thought"? Did it slip their mind to mention this? Or was keeping the public frightened more important than telling us anything positive?’

The case fatality rate was endlessly talked about, as was the R number, and the hospitalisation number. There was a detailed COvID dashboard which could be drilled down into, and even downloadable SIR models so, if mathematically minded, you could model it with your own parameters.

The central messaging was kept simple (and frightening) for obvious reasons, but no data was kept secret.

I think they will have learned a huge amount since the last pandemic, and we could barely support another furlough scheme. I think it would be much more targeted. It would depend on the nature of the pandemic, but last time, they could have developed a policy, it would need more nuance but along the lines of just people over 60 or those who lived with them to isolate, tell everyone to work at home, close large indoor events but otherwise largely carry on.

Unless someone comes up with an alternative I will. Written from a hospital bed because got COVID and I've been unable to draw breath for the last week. This is not a nice illness to have.

If there was an illness that was spreading v like wildfire and killing thousands, then yes of course another lockdown would happen.

I didn't say anything about what I wanted. You're confusing should and is again, which is exactly my point.

Identifying a best case scenario absolutely does not mean that the public would go along with it. One doesn't have to like this, but it's a fact.

What do you suggest we do while we wait to see if a new virus is “something similar to Covid”?
Carry on with our lives as normal with our fingers crossed, or take precautions and watch and learn?

I hope you have your supplies in then

What on earth would be gained by that? ?

No shops = no food. You want your children to starve to death?

No schools - fair enough as they'd be starving so no energy for school, but parents couldn't go to work as they'd naturally want to look after their children, PLUS they're starving to death as well because No Food.

You really believe that would be "the will of the people"? I think 99.9% would vehemently disagree with you.

Lockdown is infinitely preferable to that scenario

But in this case, how do you persuade essential workers to risk their lives by going out and doing their jobs?

I'd be very happy.
SPEAKING FOR MYSELF.

If the shops and schools closed, what on Earth could be people actually do? The police would fine and arrest people wondering around, lock up anyone rioting or looting, the average normal family would do what they always do, just get on with it.

I absolutely agree.

I will however add this: „if you don’t have to see the aftermath of lockdown? Congratulations!“

A large part of my work is focused on victims‘ advocacy (so I am dealing with a lot of abused children, battered women, men etc). Lockdown and its aftermath (even though our rules were considerably less severe than the lockdown in the UK) was just brutal. So I can’t even begin to imagine how severe the situation in the UK must have been…

I am not saying that I wouldn’t comply. I am however saying that the cost of lockdown and the longterm effects need to be taken into account.
Trapping children with their abusers 24/7? Taking away all the usual checks (school with teachers and social workers, routine doctor’s visits)? That needs to be taken into account as well. Lockdown protected some people. But it had the completely opposite effect on others.

I hope everyone wanting lockdowns has got a few months supplies in so they don't have to rely on others to get it to them and to avoid panic buying at the last minute. Shame on you if you haven't

Lock down protected the essential workers to some extent as it kept the R number down , less people mixing=the virus spreading less

Because their work is ESSENTIAL. Do you think someone who works in a estate agents has the same mentality as a A&E Nurse?

That's why the treatment of doctors and nurses pay is so disgusting

I think we saw 'some' compassion. But we certainly didn't see it at the supermarket aisle. I found people to be largely selfish and human nature at it's worst.

I doubt they'd give a flying if there is a high chance of them dying because of it, or infecting their loved ones.

People forget, also, that high numbers of essential workers are employed in things like food production/distribution and get paid very little. They aren't going to be risking their lives for that.

Lockdown requires large numbers of people to be out and about to keep everyone's lights on. That is not going to happen in a pandemic situation with high mortality rates.

Every virus is different and so you can't be blasé about it and think it'll just be a Covid re-run (and that was bad enough). I worry that people won't comply with any restrictions because they think they know better and distrust any experts, and so as a result fatalites will be higher. Humans are their own worst enemies!

Interesting that you mention A and E nurses as opposed to, say, cashiers in Lidl and petrol stations. Do you think all that will need to be done to persuade people with NMW retail jobs is to tell them it's ESSENTIAL they go in?

The COVID inquiry is looking at what can be learned.

they could have developed a policy, it would need more nuance but along the lines of just people over 60 or those who lived with them to isolate, tell everyone to work at home, close large indoor events but otherwise largely carry on

This is where people miss the point. It’s not only those more vulnerable who die if hospitals are overwhelmed. It’s premature babies, teenagers with a ruptured appendix, people who’ve had heart attacks or car accidents. It’s everyone who needs life-saving medical treatment. Because there aren’t enough staff to treat them.

I think we need to be more worried about a world war type situation now than a lockdown. A lockdown would be blissful compared with sending teens off to be trained to fight and then being killed, food shortages, bleak loss of civilisation, chaos, starvation which is what is going to happen if there is a proper war. Not to mention the further clamp down on free speech - no one would be permitted to talk about negotiated peace.

But if there were a pandemic, those who say "no one would comply with a lockdown" are wrong, I think. There are two groups of people now, one who understand the science from the first time round, who would comply (if the leadership were doing the right thing in the circumstances) and those who don't, who won't. Those that would will have worked out the best strategies from last time. The government would need to be proactive about thinking through solutions for those who live in tiny flats etc as well though and it is better the public pushes for this rather than go into meltdowns over lockdowns.

People seem to be looking back at Covid with almost rose tinted glasses, suggesting the deaths weren’t horrendous, hospital workers weren’t dying along with their patients, and no one but the elderly died and long covid doesn’t exist.
Before the vaccines were effective many healthy people were dying, we didn’t know exactly how it was being transmitted and many people put their lives at risk for the public good.
Were mistakes made on how long lockdown lasted? Undoubtedly. But remember watching the bodies piling up in India and Italy, the people in our own hospitals dying. I think people would comply with a lockdown, but I also think it would be a more compassionate lockdown with people allowed to see dying relatives. Unless of course it was a haemorrhagic fever.
People on this board seem to assume if having Covid didn’t affect them too badly then it was fine for everyone who didn’t die. Many people are still living with long covid. People who were in their 20s and 30s when they caught it are now still too ill to work or in some cases even walk, with various post viral symptoms.
As many people have said, it depends on the type of pandemic, but even with another covid-type virus, don’t forget how horrendous it was at the time.

Everyone’s an expert apparently, aren’t they? I have a PhD in public health and work in infectious diseases. What would you suggest the public health strategy is, OP?

Do I think normal, healthy people wearing masks now is a bit bonkers? Yes, but I have lots of friends in the US who wear masks now and continued to self-isolate long after all of us here were back to normal life. But in the midst of a pandemic where there is little evidence base to support an alternative approach to keeping people healthy and alive, absolutely I would.

We have to look out for each other. I think people who couldn’t cope with a few weeks of staying home and homeschooling and going on some walks would be struggling with life anyway. It was literally weeks in Spring of 2020 and again winter 2021. Yes, it was tough working and homeschooling and looking after a toddler while keeping our family business afloat, but it was fine. Far from the most traumatic thing I’ve had to go through. 😂

Yes, I do think some families are quite dysfunctional and for them, it amplified the effects of the neglect and the substance abuse and the poor social skills and limited resilience they had instilled in their children. But for everyone else, if we can’t cope with a few weeks of not going to the pub or soft play, then we’re setting ourselves and our kids up to struggle in life.