Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

I'm sorry - I've only had time to read the first and last posts. I'm not embarrassed to be English. I had no involvement in what happened in the past, and neither "Tommy Robinson" nor Farage speak for me.
But if anyone who is Irish believes that their country has never done wrong, I need to point out that I'm not a huge fan of the atrocities committed by the Catholic Church in Ireland, as portrayed brilliantly but horrifically by films like "The Magdalen Laundries",
The repercussions are still being felt today as more revelations emerge.
But I don't hold all Irish people responsible for this - why on earth would I?
But people do stereotype a whole nation, historically or in the present, based on the actions of some of its citizens.

I don’t recognize this immense shame about being English. Equally I don’t get up in the morning every day and think about it particularly. I like living here and the history. I don’t know where the current desire comes from overt displays of “pride” but it strikes me as being for brittle minded people, whatever their origins

How about countries where homosexuality is illegal, and or where women are treated like shit. Where gay men are thrown off buildings and women are stoned to death.

Are you ashamed of them / embarrassed for them?

Not really.
When you see the comments online and in person now about immigrants it's something to be ashamed of. Demonised and dehumanised. My own neighbour said he'd drown them all before they reached UK shores. Even when I told him that's murder, he just shrugged and said he didn't care.

The UK is becoming divided and a lot of the people bitter, nasty and blaming the wrong people for all the shit going down here and they've fallen down the rabbit hole. I have lived in a few countries in my life and worked in a few more. The thing that I always loved about the UK is it's willingness (largely) to accept people from all over the world as a neighbour and judge them on face value. If they're a decent person, ace. If they're a tosser, then not so ace. Where they are from wasn't so important, it is now.

Makes me really sad.

Get over Yourself
Seriously, some threads on here!

Maybe do a deep dive on ancient history. The English are not the only ones with an abhorrent past of colonialism. We also won’t be the last.

I’m not a full blooded English woman, but I’m proud to be born British. I love our humour, our tolerance, our weird mannerisms. What makes us tick! Without the aggressive racist weirdos (which you get in every country, btw).

Sometimes you have to take what you are and flip it to a more positive point of view. Most of us didn’t come from rich people who decided to take over other’s lands in order to get richer. We were just like any other nation of people trying to survive.

I'm neither proud nor ashamed to be English. It's an accident of birth, not something I did!

Piss off abroad then and stop moaning

Countries where abortion and birth control is illegal. Are you ashamed of them?

I’m proud to be English OP! Name a country that hasn’t done hideous things in its past and I’m pretty sure there won’t be a single one.

This sounds more like a DH and his family problem to me. Little digs and comments that have made you feel like you must apologise on behalf of the entire country for historical atrocities? It’s ridiculous.

@peacefulpeachThis!!!! I wonder if anyone from Dubai is ashamed of the appalling human rights atrocities, slavery and trafficking that goes on there? All I see is a positive PR machine.

Because they literally do pay for positive PR? They pay people to move there!

I have read only the first page but cannot stomach any more. I'm not English, but come from British stock...English/Cornish/Scots/Welsh, with a smattering of Norwegian and German. Why is it that the "English" are held to blame for absolutely everything that is bad in the modern world? FFS, read some history, untainted by the current shaming of England. Not ONE nation is free of guilt for their actions. And yes, my family were in the van of colonialism - my gt.uncle was a District Resident in Nigeria in the early 20th century. One of the self-appointed tasks of the British was to end the merciless slaving of the Arab Emirs in the north of the country. The horsemen would sweep though the country, seizing all those saleable in the slave markets, and killing the halt and the lame. The British were also dedicated to stopping headhunting and cannibalism among the tribes of Central Nigeria. When the British Governor remonstrated with the Arab rulers, they merely retorted "Can the cat be prevented from mousing?"
This is not a "well, others were worse" post...merely that cruelty, slavery, oppression, subjugation, violence, hatred of "The Other" have been an inherent part of human nature since H. sapiens appeared, and almost certainly way before that. What is shameful is if we fail to learn the weaknesses of our deep ancestry and vow never to let these wrongs be repeated.
I adored my Granny, born in Devon in 1890. She was clever, educated, a VAD nurse during WWI, a pioneering wife in the mountains. She was utterly convinced that the British, meaning of course, the English, had saved many peoples from a world of ignorance and darkness. A product of her time. As should we be.

You need to do some more research. How many plantation owners were Scottish for example? The trade of Africans by other Africans. The fact that Britain built an infrastructure in every country it colonised that benefits them today. What country do you think has an untarnished history? If you name one then research more. Britain has certainly done some messed up things in the past but so has everyone else. We learn from it globally and grow. Are you aware of the modern day slave trade? Let’s focus on fixing current issues instead of wasting time feeling guilt for something you didn’t do. At what point does the human race cease to function under the weight of other peoples guilt? It’s messed up and massively unhealthy. We’re responsible for our own actions today and that is all.

🤣

To state the obvious, you’re not English, not both of you anyway. If you were alone, they’d probably figure it out but with German hubs, I ca see why they’ve not. It’s bizarre you still wonder tbh.

Is this the stupid game of proud not proud of England if you like -

Shakespeare - proud and approved of by other nations so acceptable

Churchill - proud but not approved of by other nations

etc…

Have you come across Westwood and Simpson "The Lore of the Land"? A sort of gazetteer of local legends etc.

The good thing to take away from this thread is that 82% disagree with OP. I suspect OP thought there’d be a landslide of opinion in her favour. It’s reassuring to think there is a majority on MN who do love our country, and feel proud to be English, and hopefully it mirrors the general opinion of the population of England.

Every country in the world has a similar history. The people too. The sins of the past don't outweigh the hope of tomorrow

@blankcanvas3true! We live in such a weird hypocrisy, where the insanely rich Arab nations can get away with such awful atrocities! I haven’t seen any of them offering help or aid to Gaza as they don’t want anything to do with HAMAS, yet nobody on these pro Palestine marches mentions them. It’s always UK in the wrong.

You are entitled to feeling as you do, but it is a bit myopic and self flagellating to think only the English have murky pasts.

You could instead look back at our history through a different perspective of achievements in literature, art, reformation, industry, innovation.

All the countries of the world have colonised, been colonised, had great civilisations, lost them, come and gone. Started wars, murdered, pillaged, settled. Created magnificence, or lost it all.

History is just that, a chronicle if all that past. Good, bad and indifferent.

Of course the Scottish were involved. Because they are human.

There is such ignorance of our global human history.

This is what humans have been doing to each other since forever. Same shit, different century.

It’s not specific to a particular race or nationality. Different race doesn’t mean a different species.

I don’t understand the singling out of Britain, or of the English, as if they are somehow uniquely different. They are not.

No one should feel ashamed of who they are or where they came from.

Is this tongue in cheek?

They’re funding Hamas - just secretly