Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

Nationalistic and bitter, it’s just so self destructive.

Do you think the Dutch, Spanish, French, Belgians, Germans and Italians should be ashamed of their heritage too?

Just pointing out other countries lauded on here as heavenly and “hate English” are something us English couldn’t give a flying fuck about.

I wouldn't bother with any more counter facts, some types of people are beyond education and enjoy their own prejudices.

Even now, Glasgow has the definite air of a former great city of Empire.

Can confirm.

We have many streets named after slave owners, tobacco merchants and Caribbean plantations.

I do understand your concerns about the conflicts in society.
sadly - I think that racism and anti semitism is a world wide problem- not a British only problem.

Seriously please read on English history and see what the good things the English did for the world. There are many, along with the rest of the world also having some poor things too that they may not be too proud about either. But don’t slate an entire culture based on what the history books say. Yes some shit things were done by English authorities but so did almost every country (and still happening this second). Try to be proud of your heritage by reading and learning some of the good things. The negativity u cannot change or erase. Learn to embrace your dna.
btw im Scottish. And I like England and the English. Just saying 😂

When have I said Ireland is heavenly? It has its own problems. My point was in regards to PP saying we have a nationalist education - I was saying mine wasn’t!

Shame on you! Reported, troll 🤣

Unlike Scottish/ Irish/ Welsh identify I think a lot of the genuine old English folk stuff like Morris dancing is seen as embarrassing and Englishness has been completely defined by kings, queens and wars. We need to reclaim this!

I understand why Irish people wouldn’t feel proud of their history too (as the wife of a half-Irish man) - but I think rather than carry generational/second hand shame for literally no reason at all it’s better to not hate ourselves or others and embrace one another instead.

It used to be, lived there as a kid for a few years in the 70's. Incredibly generous and kind people they were, and probably still.

Irish here, this is absolutely not true. We don’t hold every English person accountable for what a small ruling elite did. The average working class/poor English person was probably treated abysmally by the ruling elite back then too. Also, as some pp have touched on, after the end of British rule in Ireland the Catholic Church rose to power and were way worse oppressors IMO. Any English people I know have been welcomed warmly in Ireland. Some members of my family have married English people and they have been warmly welcomed into the family. I think you’re trying to stir the pot OP but it really isn’t working. The English have plenty to be proud of. Focus on the positive and remind yourself that no English people alive today bear any responsibility for things that happened hundreds of years ago.

We have a lot of great folklore and fairytale...

There are lots of great things about English culture - wonderful authors, playwrights, philosophers, engineers, economists, etc. Wonderful classical music and theatre scene. Beautiful gardens and national parks. Some great schools and universities.
I don't think Scottish people have this sense of shame, despite a very violent history, plenty of Scottish v Scottish oppression and enthusiastic participation in the slave trade.

I agree.

But we do kings queens wars and especially Mortis dancing so well 🤣

I wonder if other nationalities with histories of colonising others feel shame in their ancestry. Are the French ashamed to be French? The Dutch? The Portuguese? The Spanish?
We can’t change the past of our country or ourselves but we can do our part to make it better and never be part of anything like that again.

Colonisation?, not sure that is something peculiar to us English, the Spanish, the French, the Germans, the Egyptians, the Romans, the Dutch etc etc etc... have all done it too.

You might not like history, but it has shaped the world we live in - a mate of mine who hails from Jamaica makes the point that without the Brits and the slave trade he wouldn't be a Jamaican, but somewhere in Africa.

Likewise if the Normans hadn't invaded I'd be French, war, slavery, famine, industry, have all forged the world we live in - moved us far and wide, spread ideas and cultures, its not all doom and gloom, and its gone, there is only one way, forward.

I don’t even know where to start to answer this. At worst you are frighteningly ignorant; at best you are extraordinarily naive.

William Dalrymple, the Scottish historian, has talked about the huge number of Scottish surnames (including his own) that even today can be found throughout the Caribbean, especially Jamaica. I somehow doubt that all these 19th century Scotsmen were there on a cruise.

Obvious rage bait I expect. If it is truly how you feel then you have been completely brainwashed. Most countries have regrettable aspects of their history.

Germany, Japan, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy. All of these countries had many colonies and were involved in slavery. Scotland and Wales were active participants in the British Empire, not victims of it.

As for Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the USA and other majority white nations which were former colonies, it was their ancestors who were the strongest proponents of colonialism, rather than the people who stayed in Europe.

Slavery was practiced all over the world and especially in North Africa going back to ancient times.

Examples of atrocities across sub-Saharan Africa are not difficult to find. Rwanda in the 90s?

Human sacrifice was rife indigenous people in Latin America before the arrival of Europeans.

The Communist party in China is responsible for millions of deaths. Ditto USSR.

The list literally goes on and on. At least the British empire contributed significantly to the containment of Nazism and the eventual abolition of the Atlantic slave trade.

There is plenty to be proud of.

You're not inclined to support England? Well, we might as well not even bother sending a team to the World Up if the OP's not waving a flag! So glad the Lando didn't become World Champion........whoops, but he did, sorry to upset you. The agony you must have suffered during the Rugby World cup and the Euros, at least the Lionesses were only second best in the World a couple of years ago, defeated by those peace-loving, non-colonising Spaniards.

I do think the irony is that England IS an incredibly tolerant and liberal country! So people
constantly criticise the U.K. and its government because that’s their right! Yet, I barely hear one pro Palestinian protester ever criticise HAMAS and its appalling actions towards its own people.

I’m English, Irish and Anglo Indian heritage…. If your not sure what Anglo Indian is it’s
A community born from interactions between European colonizers (especially British) and local Indian women, dating back to the East India Company era (17th century onwards).
in terms of colonisation I’ve got more to be embarrassed about than you… considering my paternal great grandfather and so on colonised Indian community’s.
but I’m defo not embarrassed. I’m here, I can’t control what those before me have done. I can only control myself. I was born and bred here, yeah it’s not perfect, but show me a country that is.