Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

I mean, I don't feel personally responsible but I think the combined atrocities of British colonialism probably are on a par with the holocaust aren't they?

Says who? You can compare lots of things that aren't exactly equal. I mean what about the treatment of those in the Congo during the Belgian empire? That's surely up there with the worst treatment by European colonisers? Do they get a pass because they had less land? Of course you can compare the various empires at the same time and during history.

Also it's this self flagellating brag again. The idea that the British were on such an elevated level that the tiny insignificant French etc can't even be compared to them.

I agree.

Jeez … imagine daring to say this about another nationality or culture.

Gobsmacked .

I am English and proud . Like the majority of English people.

Only on MN do you get this kind of shit .

Would they be rude or hostile to an English person they met?

And what does support look like?
I 'support my country' by tearing down far right posters and imagery where I can, and tackling the Far Right wherever I find it.
Of course, other people think that 'support their country' by yelling at immigrants to 'go home' and 'stop the boats.'

Actually Slavery was likely everywhere and developed as a trade independently, However, the word "Slave" derives from "Slavic" so there is evidence that it was historically most prolific in eastern Europe.

There were Irish people who economically benefited from the slave trade just as some English benefitted. The fact that Dublin was under British control didn’t mean Irish people were innocent .

The Trans Saharan slave trade is estimated to involve similar numbers, no?

Your Ancestry results show what your DNA mostly looks like compared to the DNA of other people who have submitted samples to Ancestry, aligned with their current addresses by region.

That’s it.

Your chromosomes don’t have a nationality.

MNland is not the real world is it. The professionally offended on here are people I have never once met in my 4 decades on this planet.

I have a wealth of family and friends from all different backgrounds and if anybody said IRL they were ashamed to be English they’d get the piss taken out of them til the end of time.

And rightly so

Not Ireland

Same. Both me and my brother (both English) married Irish people, and they have all been extremely lovely to us.
DH's many (irish) cousins nearly all had my girls as flowergirls or readers at their weddings, clearly in no way ashamed of their English in laws.

The so called ' far right' are not the issue in the UK right now

No, Britain wasn't the first country to ban slavery- it depends how you look at it.

From Reuters.com:

1777 - State of Vermont, an independent Republic after the American Revolution, becomes first sovereign state to abolish slavery 1780s - Trans-Atlantic slave trade reaches peak 1787 - The Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade founded in Britain by Granville Sharp and Thomas Clarkson 1792 - Denmark bans import of slaves to its West Indies colonies, although the law only took effect from 1803. 1807 - Britain passes Abolition of the Slave Trade Act, outlawing British Atlantic slave trade.

• United States passes legislation banning the slave trade, effective from start of 1808. 1811 - Spain abolishes slavery, including in its colonies, though Cuba rejects ban and continues to deal in slaves. 1813 - Sweden bans slave trading 1814 - Netherlands bans slave trading 1817 - France bans slave trading, but ban not effective until 1826 1833 - Britain passes Abolition of Slavery Act, ordering gradual abolition of slavery in all British colonies. Plantation owners in the West Indies receive 20 million pounds in compensation

If you are born into a family which still has ill gained wealth and you benefit from that, I'd see a point. Otherwise, it's not on your conscience.

I am not ‘ far right ‘ but I love to see the St George’s flag and am proud of my roots and who I am .
Fine for other countries to wave their flags though when in England eh ? As in any other country- but in England- the English can’t fly their own fucking flag.
Fuck that shit .

Not all of them, but some of them certainly. I’ve taken DH back home and they barely tolerate him, even after nearly 20 years.

If you hate being English so much then leave England I don’t really know what else to suggest.

In the context of this thread-support means not constantly slagging off the place where you live for things that happened before any of us were born -to the extent people feel ashamed to be English.

Honestly, grow up. Firstly, people aren’t determined by the worst of their ancestry. Secondly, you should focus on reasons to be proud. The English pretty much created modernity. They invented Common Law, trial by jury, limited government (Magna Carta), habeas corpus, modern parliamentary democracy and human rights. They abolished the slave trade and dismantled their own empire of their own volition because of the philosophical belief that self-determination is preferable. They started the Industrial Revolution, which has brought prosperity to vast swathes of the world. Their flexible language is the most commonly used modern foreign language in the world today, used in business, politics, the arts and academia. It produced poets and writers of global importance, not just in England, but around the world. You need to realise that your complacency comes from swimming in these waters and taking them for granted, but in global terms there really aren’t that many English people, so own it and start loving yourself and your kin a little more.

But that's the same for pretty much every country. England historically and currently did plenty of good things and plenty of bad, I personally think it's a bit silly to be either ashamed or proud of being born in a particular country, but if you are going to be ashamed because of the bad things done, then why not also be proud of the good things?

Yes indeed

The British Empire was the last big one hence the negative feelings from nations who were once colonized by them. North Africans aren't too keen on the French and South Americans feel similarly about the Conquistadors while the Germans got into empire-building a little too late as we all know.

She is Irish, check out her posts on other threads. I don’t know why she’s doing it, like I say I put it down to a very nationalist education