Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

If you think England and the USA are so bad, maybe it's time to read up on some French history. Like the massace of Algerians in Paris in 1961 where maybe 200 people were killed on the streets of the French capital and many of their bodies were dumped in the Seine.

The point is most countries have done bad things. I like France, btw, and I also like England and the USA.

Delusional. What countries can you name have no issues like this country has?!

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pure country? Who said I live there?

OP’s post is beyond embarrassing and displays a shocking grasp of perspective and understanding of history. Pathetic.

Don't be that person who believes all this stuff. Read academic books from different sources and you might change your mind. Far more informative than the DM.

Yes, it's a shame the OP won't tell us his nationality 'because it would be outing'.

I doubt that. Most countries have a population of at least a few million, so it's not as if anyone is likely to say 'Oh, that must be Tom and Sally from number 14!'

I'm sure the 'DH' comes from a country which is far from perfect and has plenty of its own issues. But that wouldn't fit with the 'England always bad' narrative.

I think you need to read some more history books - pretty much every nation on the planet has been an oppressor and colonialist at some point - the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Mongols, Ottomans, the Byzantines. It is only in recent history that Britain, Spain, Portugal and others have been colonists. It is very unlikely that you would be able to find a single nation that has no history of being an invader or oppressor, no history of engagement in slavery or war. It’s the nature of humans and society - not a nice aspect of human or evolutionary history. But the ‘English’ are worse (or better) that most any other nation on the planet.

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never read DM in my life

what do I not need to believe?

I refuse to take on the embarrassment of the flag-waving, foreigner-loathing, Farage-supporting idiots. There are good and bad things about being English. We have some fantastic role models from the past and the present. We don’t all have to don hair shirts.

Better to be proud of our country while striving to make it better and drown out the idiots.

I think being 'proud' of being English, or French or Chinese or whatever is as silly as being 'ashamed'.

You are only responsible for your own actions and achievements, good or bad. Not those of people born hundreds of years ago with whom you happen to share a nationality which maybe didn't even exist at the time.

What do you do?

Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Oh stop it.

I'm only half English. My mum's an immigrant Anglophile who moved here young because she loved our literature. I consider myself English, and while I think "pride" is not the right word, I am glad to be English. I feel lucky to have been born here. I feel connected to the land and the history of this tiny, wonderful island that has made such an outsized contribution in any field of human endeavour you care to name. We have produced outstanding scientists, sportspeople, writers, philosophers, musicians, comedians, architects, engineers, artists, you name it, we've excelled in it.

The history of humanity is, frankly, brutal and uncompromising and tribal. Everywhere. Pick a country and do a bit of research and you will find atrocities beyond imagination. Many posters have alluded to this and only mentioned European countries, but there is of course a wealth of horror to be found outside Europe. Try the Arab slave trade, the Chinese Cultural Revolution, the Japanese WW2 atrocities (you'll need a very strong stomach, mind). Even the Native American tribes, whom I'm sure OP imagines spent their time singing Kumbaya and painting with all the colours of the wind, were fighting, enslaving and killing each other long before any European set foot on the continent.

And it is so stupid, so absurd to think that any person alive today should feel guilt or shame over something done by other people, people living in a time and a culture unfathomably different from ours, long before you were even born, that I just can't comprehend the mentality.

I am Irish and your are being completely ridiculous. Most Irish people don’t hate you but we do enjoy taking the piss out of the English all in the name of the Craic.

What separates out the shit things that Europeans and indeed the English did was you were technologically advanced compared to others. So the shitty things done in the past by the English were done on an industrial scale.

Look around the world both historically and today. Humans are capable of being monsters but we are also capable of incredible things.

Stop with all the nonsense about being ashamed of being English. Unless your a descendant of the upper class elites the vast majority of English, Irish, whatever in the past lived very modest lives and would have had to work very hard for everything they had. Millions of people have moved to UK to make a life there so you can’t be that bad 😁

The Barbary pirates (Arabs) are estimated to have taken between 1M and 1.2M Europeans to North Africa between 1500 and 1900.

Not minuscule.

I travel. It changes your perspective - and I don't mean a week in Gran Canaria.

Quite minuscule compared to 13-14 million

Some English don't help themselves when abroad. I'm not English and because we spoke English the locals thought we were and called us horrible names. There is also still the colonial attitude in some English. However op your Irish teacher probably told you their version of what the English did in Ireland which would have laid on thick the bad things that were done. I lived in England for 8 years and would still be there only for personal circumstances. Easier to look at the bad rather than the good. Democracy and Free Speech are just two things to be proud of!

English people aren't particularly different to any other group of people. I've lived most of my life in other countries and they all have their fair share of racists arseholes as well as nice people.

You are not responsible for what a bunch of men in the past did. We are no longer a big player on the world stage. There are other far more powerful countries that are taking on that role now.

Well, it's only been a minute since the last anti English thread. At least take a breath or something.

I agree . This country has done some good things and some not so good . There is no utopia out there .

We have learnt some things from the past and our society is improving but imperfect ( but still better than most . )
We believe in fairness and freedom of speech and democracy. We allow debate and tolerate difference.

I think the people who are criticising simply haven’t read enough history.

On the post-Christian continuation of shame, I think it’s an interesting hypothesis. I first heard about this idea from the Historian Tom Holland. He describes wokeness as a continuation of Christianity. The victims as the heroes. The purity of beliefs with cancel culture. It’s an interesting idea. Many of us think we’ve moved away from it but I can see the elements of religion in certain left wing circles.

I dont get all this self flagellation about being English. Many other nations were complicit in slavery and many still are.
Instead of whining about the "wicked english" this virtue signallers should o and volunteer in some the countries where people, ans specifically females have no human rights at all, but they ain't gonna do that are they😖😡

I meant about the modern slavery in Britain - I was asked what I do so wondering what you do?

please stop being insulting - try to stick to the discussion