To be confused by the two working parent set up

[Angels1111]

As I return to work from my Christmas break I return to the same conundrum I've been having since kids were born...
...that is confusion at how to handle my multiple roles in life.

I can't help but think that in my mother's generation they had to do the same stuff as us, but with no work. And, there was more of a community to fall back on too - she could get the neighbours to watch us if needed, relatives had more time to visit and play with us, etc. But she had time, to keep herself healthy and to keep us healthy.

Now it feels like a lot of us work in careers which are not conducive to taking long career breaks or going part time. Or, we can't afford to. So we end up juggling everything that comes with having a family with work. My partner does lots but it feels like two people splitting three jobs between them (work, children, house) is more of a stretch and a juggle and I wish every day that I could just focus on the house and kids.

I feel resentful that if I hire a nanny or a baby sitter or get family to help, they'd just play with the kids, feed them lunch, and maybe wash up after lunch wheeras I'd be doing all of that plus the food shop, house cleaning, admin, cooking dinner, washing, homework etc etc simultaneously, and if I wanted to hire someone to truly replace my roles it would take 2-3 people just to do the home stuff let alone work.

But this could just be how I'm handling life! I have a chronic condition so potentially have less energy than the general population, I do handle it a lot better when I'm not flaring.

It's interesting that you say that, as it hasn't been my experience.

My mother gave up work when she had her first child at the age of 28. She never had another paid job for the rest of her life.

I gave up work when I had my first baby in my early 20s. I didn't work outside the home for the next six years. After that I worked part-time in the evenings, after DH got home from work so he could take over with the children. I had various other part-time jobs over the following 15 years, and finally returned to full-time work when my youngest child left home for university.

When my children were young, there were other children living nearby and their mums didn't work either. We did help each other out from time to time with babysitting, play dates etc.
There was very little childcare provision available. There were a few childminders but very few had vacancies. There was a private nursery school, but that was only for children over the age of 3 and only for 6 hours a day during term-time (and very expensive). There were a couple of playgroups, for children aged 2.5 up to school age, but we mothers had to work there on a rotor basis as volunteers. There was a toddler group, for babies aged 9 months up to 2.5 years, which was held one afternoon a week but mothers had to attend with their children.

Almost all of the mums that I knew in the late 1970s and early 1980s didn't consider going back to work until their youngest child started junior school. It just wasn't possible before then because of the lack of available childcare. Many children were looked after by older siblings until mum got home from work.

Exactly this!!!

You’re not wrong OP. We found it incredibly challenging to have neither of us focused on the children or house (cooking, cleaning, admin). It was stressful. It’s smoother since he earns and I am sahm (to 3 small children).

when I was a working parent to 1 DC, I would finish meetings at 5:30, be last parent to collect from nursery at 6:10 (closed at 6). Rushed home found all the food was out of date in the fridge, beans on toast, bath and toddler to bed. Barely saw them and felt like I was on the verge of collapse

I worked full-time with four kids, when the youngest was a baby DH became disabled so I was his carer as well. Still managed to wash my hair most mornings.

I'm a similar age to your Mum. I did have a job, but I didn't know anyone else who did. Older women were quite happy to tell me I should be at home with my children.

Yeh this has been closer to my experience than most of the replies on this thread. Even now, more than half of my peers are SAHMs and quite a lot homeschool. Must just be the sort of area I live in

Ah that must have been hard!
Washing my hair I manage. It's longer stuff I should be doing to manage my condition such as working out, having massages etc that I'm not sure how to fit in.

I would have hated that too! It feels like it should be a choice either way.

That's strange. When I was on maternity leave in 2007/2008 most of the mums I met went back part-time.

When DD started primary school in another part of our town most of the mums were SAHMs and were constantly out for playdates, coffees, meeting in the playground.

I actually felt a lot more lonely then. During nursery times I had a big group of other p/t mums to meet for playdates at weekends or if our days off were the same.

About teens needing you: I found that school involvment decreased. Maybe the odd play or a concert if your child is musical and one parent evening per year. But emotionally they are a lot less stable. DD needed plenty of parental support to navigate teen-angst and friendship issues.

I didn't feel like I needed to work out, no car, dashing for the bus to work after taking kids to nursery or school, carrying the weekly shop home, no washing machine with first two so hand washing, helping to run beavers and cubs. Life was a workout.

Never thought about massages, back in the 70s I don't think I knew anyone who had massages. I dont know how I had the energy. Managed a part-time degree amidst that lot. I honestly dont know how.

Try being a single parent. And my mum also went out to work as well.

What age were you when you bought your first house? In the UK, house prices crashed / slumped by 37% between 1989 - 1995.

I was actually alive in the 70s/80s so know what it was like in my family/ community at least and the standard of living wasn't that different to now in my experience.

Maybe my parents were ahead of their time or had a bit more money than average, but I'm posting from experience not conjecture.

Really? I was alive in the 70s and 80s too - as I said in my post - and my childhood bore no relation to today at all.
Eating out has massively expanded compared to then, when it really only existed in restaurants and cafes. My grandmother had a pub until 1976 and was considered ahead of her time because she offered sandwiches!
Takeaways were unusual too -McD's didn't come to the UK until 1974 and it was definately the 80s before it expanded to my city.
Beyond swimming and Brownies, activities weren't a thing either - i remember my friend going to gymnastics and ballet too but I remember her mum had to really track them down and had to drive her to the next town (she was the only one in my group whose mother could drive AND had her own car. Her family was pretty wealthy compared to the rest of us). 'Incidental' activities such as soft play, farms, role-playing cafes etc were only really beginning to be a thing when I had my first child in 1993.
Even my wealthier friend's family holidayed in the UK and her mum made all her clothes. Foreign travel did exist of course, but it wasn't normalised the xray it is now.
If you honestly think your 70s childhood was the same as a 2020s childhood you must either know no young families or the ones you do know are unusual.
Or you must have been brought up in a region massively ahead of its time!

The window of time in which it was common for working class women to not work was extremely brief in the context of mankind.

Women have always worked! In the past women were in service, in agriculture, they were bakers, cleaners, seamstresses, brewers.

What has really changed is how much effort/attention we expect children to be given, and the segregation between home & the workplace.

In the past women often had children with them while working - babies strapped on backs while in the field etc, or fitted work like spinning or weaving around family life.

Children were also "let loose" at younger ages. 3 or 4 year olds out and about minded by older kids, none with anything like the helicopter parenting we have today. Older children were starting to learn trades from 12 and childhood was short.

Also - even my grandmother worked part time in a shop and she had far fewer labour saving inventions:

• no fridge or freezer, so shopped more often as food didn't keep
• no huge supermarkets delivering food, she went to the butcher, fishmonger, grocer, greengrocer, all separate.
• fewer affordable ready made clothes so she made a lot of clothes for herself & kids.
• no good vacuum cleaner (and certainly no robot hoover!)
• clothes washing & drying took far more time
• no convenient appliances like microwaves, air fryers etc

That said, you didnt need to go to the gym to stay slim because you walked everywhere and did more physical work.

I think social media often gives us the impression we are supposed to have vast amounts of leisure time spent on beauty regimes, extensive exercise, holidaying, socialising. I don't think this has been the case for most (apart from a very tiny wealthy minority) for most of mankind's history.

Even now, more than half of my peers are SAHMs and quite a lot homeschool. Must just be the sort of area I live in

This is really unusual. I live in a village in the south & there's only 3 or 4 sahms across both my kids classes and they are generally low earning types for whom the maths didn't add up.

Almost all of the mums that I knew in the late 1970s and early 1980s didn't consider going back to work until their youngest child started junior school. It just wasn't possible before then because of the lack of available childcare.

My experience is a little different. I agree there was less childcare available, especially for children under 3. I do think far fewer women worked with toddlers. But lots worked with school aged kids, they just did things that fitted around it - nurses doing night or weekend shifts & they slept while kids were at school, teachers who did supply or shot out at 3.15 to go get their own kids, who were often stood waiting at the school gate for half an hour before & after school at 7 or 8 years old because you could do that then (this was me!). Part time work in shops, school hours work in hair salons, evening & weekend work. Lots of women i knew worked pretty much school hours at councils, as receptionists in doctors etc.

I have come to the conclusion that two working parents (full time) just does not work!!
I want to enjoy my time with my children, once they are grown up I feel like we will regret the time we missed with them.
Two things I am trying:
1Working less hours. We live on a real budget, have less money than most in our friendship group but I think we make up for it with actually being able to enjoy our weeks, not just surviving them.
2Genuinely sharing the load, I follow some 'mental load' people on Instagram who have really helped me understand and verbalise the mental load that (mostly) women carry. And therefore I am beginning to feel less guilt about taking time for myself or relinquishing tasks to my husband.
Absolutely dont spend any money on childcare so that someone else can enjoy your kids. You could try instead try to reduce working hours if possible with your job or spend money on the tasks you don't want to do: cleaning, laundry, meal subscriptions etc. Giving you more time to enjoy with your children.

But what if you quite enjoy working and don't really enjoy spending time with small children?

I enjoy my teenagers, because they're a bit more like cats: bob in for food and a fuss, then fuck off again. Small children were hard and boring. But the whole working ft/ young kids stage doesn't really last long in the grand scheme if things. One of mine will start learning to drive this year; 2 minutes ago he was up at 5am every morning and we were counting down to cbeebies starting at 6.

Definitely I don't think it should fall into the mother to go part time. Unless they'd rather be at home with the kids.

A family with two full time parents is sooo busy. Evenings and weekends spent prepping laundry and food and catching up on chores, squeezing in homework.
And with two working parents the woman is still doing most of the household and childcare mental load.
A lot of the working mums I know are totally overloaded and stressed out, not so much with the Dads.
Yes maybe it just feels like a long stretch to do when you're in it! Good to know there is light at the end of the tunnel.

@Inthewrongtimezone
Almost all of the mums that I knew in the late 1970s and early 1980s didn't consider going back to work until their youngest child started junior school. It just wasn't possible before then because of the lack of available childcare. Many children were looked after by older siblings until mum got home from work.
Yes, this was how it was for nearly all the mums at our school in the '80s.

It's a valid opinion - I don't see any chips.

I agree OP. My mum is 89 and she stopped working when I arrived (I was adopted and it was a condition of the adoption that she was at home - that said, hardly any of my friends mums worked either so it was very normal, and affordable). She never worked more than one day a week after that and retired fully at 55. Am I jealous? You bet 😂

Nor me. You just have to look at MN on pretty much any day to see parents moaning about inconsequential trivia such as drinking squash, eating biscuits, watching TV etc and treating these 'misdemeanors' as if they were very serious dangers. And don't get me started on parents 'gently explaining' to their parents (who raised them, don't forget) that they basically don't now how to look after children because 'research'.
To deny this happens is crazy.
My mum looked after my eldest so we could both work and I just accepted things were different at grandma's house and this was outweighed by the peace of mind of knowing he was with someone who thought the world of him and loved him.
Now some parents seem to think their parents should be the grateful ones to be 'allowed' to look after the little emporers we are raising and the grandparents should simply fall in line and be micromanaged on the trivia of daily life. I am not talking about things such as nit using car seats obviously, but more of the 'My mum had a visitor while looking after m child' or 'My MIL took my child somewhere without my permission' or 'My dad gave my child a biscuit when we avoid UPF type of post.