To be confused by the two working parent set up

[Angels1111]

As I return to work from my Christmas break I return to the same conundrum I've been having since kids were born...
...that is confusion at how to handle my multiple roles in life.

I can't help but think that in my mother's generation they had to do the same stuff as us, but with no work. And, there was more of a community to fall back on too - she could get the neighbours to watch us if needed, relatives had more time to visit and play with us, etc. But she had time, to keep herself healthy and to keep us healthy.

Now it feels like a lot of us work in careers which are not conducive to taking long career breaks or going part time. Or, we can't afford to. So we end up juggling everything that comes with having a family with work. My partner does lots but it feels like two people splitting three jobs between them (work, children, house) is more of a stretch and a juggle and I wish every day that I could just focus on the house and kids.

I feel resentful that if I hire a nanny or a baby sitter or get family to help, they'd just play with the kids, feed them lunch, and maybe wash up after lunch wheeras I'd be doing all of that plus the food shop, house cleaning, admin, cooking dinner, washing, homework etc etc simultaneously, and if I wanted to hire someone to truly replace my roles it would take 2-3 people just to do the home stuff let alone work.

But this could just be how I'm handling life! I have a chronic condition so potentially have less energy than the general population, I do handle it a lot better when I'm not flaring.

Having children is a choice however… and I do feel at some stage we must live within our means and capacity.

Women have always worked .However it was more accepted to be a SAHM then at least with small DC.Nurseries were expensive and hard to come by.I think now generally MC wives work ,and the general standard of living is higher now.Most women drive and have their own car if at work .My Mum used to catch the bus and neither she nor MIL.who also worked PT. drove at all (sadly both passed now .Mum used to do 3 days and spent weekends washing in the greatly prized twin tub!

.Most women drive and have their own car if at work

most women who work don’t have their own cars. Only about 34% of households have 2 cars….

What is living within one’s means & capacity?

The thing is though, there has always been research and knowledge about child development - it just changes all the time.
Those of us old enough to be grandparents (I am 58 but have no grandchildren myself) have seen so many fads, fashions and 'best practices' come and go over the years, so forgive us for not buying into the theory that today's particular set are the definitive way to raise children and therefore our children know better than we do. They may know the current tropes - but that isn't the same thing,
To pull out one of your examples about grandparents being chronically sleep deprived - my experience is somewhat different. As we only got three months of maternity leave, my peers and I were obsessed with getting baby to sleep through the night when they were around three months old - and by and large, we managed it. I certainly did with all three of mine, but then I believe a lot of the practices around sleep currently in vogue seem to promote poor sleep for everyone.
For what it's worth, I think the current baby-led fashion will be discredited in the future as being extremely detrimental to maternal mental health. Back when the grandparents were new parents, the adults' health and wellbeing was considered along with the baby's, but that seems to have gone out of the window, with new mums not daring to even go to the loo in case their baby cries.
TLDR: You would hate to have me as a MIL but equally it's somewhat annoying to have decades of experience wafted away in the name of 'research'

I wasn't really commenting on whether progress has been made. I was taking issue at a pp poster who had described a 'golden age' for woman in the last century.

Agreed. It's a tough one as when you are at work then people want you to be at home (yeah looking at you flakey ex childminder) and when you are at work then people want you to do at home (no point in all those Thursday meetings as l don't work that day and l can't "swap" with another mythical person 🙄)

So far l have gleaned your husbands / partners need to pull his weight as much of he can. Maybe more if you earn more / have a more demanding role. Don't forget you most likely did maternity leave! Plus do your best but don't burn yourself out. I'm looking at my mum who wants as 'all singing, all dancing Christmas' out of me. She's done ZERO childcare, whilst she had young children she worked quite part time and got her mum to act as nanny so much

Being a working parent is hard but that's the reality for most of us.

Women DID really used to work outside the home much less - there’s been substantial growth from the the 1970s, both in terms of numbers working at all and more working longer/full time hours mostly driven by women with children working.

Plenty of data here if you are interested:

https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/output_url_files/BN234.pdf

i’m not commenting on whether it’s good or bad but it’s an undeniable fact.

(I tend to think a better outcome might have been a rebalancing so that men worked less at the same time as women worked more, but capitalism doesn’t like that)

Back when the grandparents were new parents, the adults' health and wellbeing was considered along with the baby's, but that seems to have gone out of the window, with new mums not daring to even go to the loo in case their baby cries.

Omg this is so true! I can't remember exactly what I read as a new parent to give me this attitude but I was so scared that I'd ruin his mental health by "neglecting him" if I did something for myself :/

Yes this is a good point, the DH does have to pull their weight and/or you buy in help and you do have to draw boundaries around what you are and aren't able to do , I.e. not taking on "wifework" for DH when they can do it themselves. A lot of the women on here posting about struggling with the balance, it's often because Dad isn't doing anything like enough.

When I was growing up, my mum didn’t work and that was the norm for my school friends. I’m 38 now.

Noe none of my friends are sahms. Even if they wanted to be.

@Angels1111 Parenting has changed and requires a lot more effort, energy and thought now than before. It's because many parenting practises that were considered ok then would be considered abusive or neglectful now. For example kids (sometimes random) babysitting other kids whilst parents are out. Relaxing (and drinking heavily) and having a grown up social life in the house whilst kids there. Physical violence as a way to get kids obey and be quiet. Leaving kids at home alone for long periods and letting them roam around on the streets unaccompanied.

Our mothers had it easier in that sense. We are doing better for our dc mental and physical wellbeing and safety, but we are bearing all of the improvements on our shoulders and it is exhausting.

I’m also in bad health and up until they grew a bit was juggling full time in my cafe, a special needs kiddo and a little one.
I won’t lie I pushed myself way further then I should have working through pain with gritted teeth and tears in my eyes,
finishing work then rushing to school then to nursery home dinner playing reading baths repeat repeat.
My husband got home at 6 and then had an hour long poo before managing a story if I was lucky!
Now they’re older 13/16 and Iv broken myself
chronic stress I can’t get under control😔
fibro, arthritis everywhere, EDS both knees need replacing they’re bone on bone!!
don’t do it don’t kill yourerlf keeping everything together I look back at pictures of us having g picnics in the park and I look so put together with my little pots and plates etc 😆
in reality I was in so much pain I was holding back tears. Firstly look after yourself xx

You come across as smug and privileged

There's a bit of rose tinted glasses going on here about the past and to be frank with 50% marriages ending up in divorce why on earth would anyone rely on a one working parent set-up, I'm a single parent now but even when I wasn't I never relied on my ex or my parents.

I agree with you that parenting now requires a lot more input but I’m not really sure why!

my parents were nothing like you have outlined in terms of neglectful or abusive parenting (and for that I am really grateful). But our weekends were filled with siblings playing together or doing the Big Shop or following Mum around the shopping centre. Holidays we stayed at the beach all day (caravan holidays) and made friends and played with them. They always knew where we were we weren’t allowed off by ourselves until teenagers. Actual playing interaction with parents was fairly minimal, they were busy doing housework, work for their jobs (marking as teachers) or relaxing themselves on holiday. I had a wonderful childhood. I don’t know how we’ve got to what I’ve experience with my children today which is so much of our lives and weekends being child led?!

Well, i didn't feel neglected either but we did all those things. I was a babysitter since i was 13 to all kinds of younger kids. No mobile phones, just blind trust. I was sent to relatives for weeks during summer holidays where we did what we wanted all day long. Safe countryside, but still. Mum called once a week to check on me. Early 90s..

Ok.i am not particularly smug. Just realistic about the sacrifices I made. I am privileged to have e had an excellent education and healthy children. I have chosen to be prioritise my family over material gain. Lots of people are privileged,it doesn't mean we are wrong or morally lacking. It is not necessarily an insult.

I don’t know how we’ve got to what I’ve experience with my children today which is so much of our lives and weekends being child led?!

@Startrekobsessed I wonder if apart from the fear of stranger danger it’s partly capitalism that has pushed this. Children playing in front of their neighbours houses and running back for meals costs nothing (extra).

Kids having to go to some event or other usually has a fee attached. Not to mention said the parents are hovering around they may end up going out for lunch or dinner.

Rather a sweeping generalisation there and not at all my own experience.

Rather a sweeping generalisation there and not at all my own experience
You have been on MN long enough 😁

I grew up in 60s. Both parents worked fulltime. Things were difficult for parents in a different way. Women were held to a much higher standard of house keeping and personal grooming. Technology hadn’t delivered so many devices to make cooking etc easier. Everything cooked from scratch, no freezers.Not everyone had cars. Transport not as good. Homes didn’t have telephones or central heating and there were 3 TV channels.

I would have happily been a housewife. I enjoy being home and doing home stuff. However I ended up a single parent so the pressure was on me to work, keep the house running and do everything for the children. Thankfully I had some help from my mum and brother.

I’m now approaching 50 and in a low income job that won’t really support me when my UC stops for my youngest in a year or so. I’m very much ready to retire at this point but got another 17 years thanks to them raising the retirement age. I’m more than ready for time for me.

I'm nearly 50 and both my parents worked out of the house in FT jobs. My mum had a few years off when we were very little because mat leave wasn't as generous but by the time we were both in primary school she was teaching in the local secondary school FT. Obviously she had school holidays off so childcare was a term-time headache only.

I think the difference was that the expectations on parents and families was less. We didn't do many clubs or activities because they didn't really exist, we didn't go on expensive day trips or weekend breaks throughout the year. We didn't eat out much - it was usually sandwiches and squash in the car at the beach. I spent my school holidays reading library books and riding my hand me down bike. My parents didn't have loads of cleaning, tidying or life admin to keep them busy when they weren't at work.

Its just a different time and we expect more of ourselves and for our money to pay for things that weren't even an option 40-50 years ago.