I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

My mum is like this except she will talk for ages about a very esoteric historical fact that literally no one cares about (and I am actively into history, I read history books for fun). She says I zone out when she talks but sometimes I just want to talk about normal topics. I feel you, part of the art of conversation is knowing when

I understand how you feel op. My DB is like this. Mensa level intelligent but definitely ND. When he gets me into a deep conversation I hate it actually as I am not as clever and find it difficult to get my point across. He is rubbish at empathy and being able to detect how someone might be feeling.

BIL is like this. He has pet topics, which always come up. Things which is he supposedly “anti” (religion for example) but he’s actually obsessed & better read on he subject than anyone I know, especially those who actually practice religion. He’s the same with diet / food. Evangelical. It’s quite boring! He does think on a deeper plane (and procrastinates, he suffers major analysis paralysis) but with him, he assumes that the rest of us don’t think at all. Not so, it’s just internal dialogue for me. Of course I question things! But, I also happily accept, and don’t question or psychologically poke everything…

Intelligence is incredibly lonely.....

No. No it's not.

Assuming everyone else is less than, because they don't have the same academic level/desire to discuss the abstract continuously, being pious and looking down on others because they enjoy many forms of conversation....that is what makes you lonely.

I'm incredibly intelligent. My best friend is incredibly intelligent. Out intelligence is vastly different, mine comes from books and a love of learning. Hers comes from practical experience. We operate in entirely different spheres, but we adore each other and treasure each other beyond measure. Because we both understand, intelligence is not one thing. It is many facets.

My ex husband is the smartest person I know, mind blowing smart. There isn't a subject he couldn't have a discussion or an opinion on, he's incredibly practical too. But has the emotional intelligence of a qumquat.

One key theme in this thread, is only academia counts as intelligence. And that is, as my late grandmother would say, absolute tosh.

100%

Send her my way, she sounds brilliant. I don’t understand people who never question or critique the ways of everyday life. It’s such a natural urge for me to think about why society operates as it does and question the validity of social expectations. And I’m not a philosophy grad! I think you’re either wired this way or you’re not, but I have to say I find it very difficult to maintain long term close relationships with people who only ever want to do small talk.

I hope this doesn’t come across as superficial or unbearably naive, but I wonder, OP, if you could find a way to suggest journalling to your daughter?

Lots of people find this a helpful way to think things through and to write down their thoughts. Personally, I am not keen on Julia Cameron’s, The Artist’s Way,, but she does have a workbook that might be useful and there are several other books on the journaling. If you look through the different websites and the bookshelves in a large bookshop, you might find a book that you think would be attractive to her and you could give her a large journal for writing?

The other thing is, I wonder if you could find a way to help her regard the different aspects of communication as a project she could learn about? So she could learn the value of building connections with small talk and approach that as an academic and philosophical subject?

My brother is like this, but also he does try to force his beliefs and shouts me down if I interject to disagree. He's quite right wing and when he gets started he will rant in a monologue for up to 2 hours and it's hard to get a word in edgeways. He doesn't want to talk about his life, or my life, or something funny on TV, or our plans for the holidays, he only wants to talk about the decay of British culture, impending environmental disasters, the oppression of white men in our society... I feel bad I don't call him often.

Is she able to join a debate team ? Maybe if she takes on her Phd.

Jeez has he been radicalised?

DHs entire family are like this. All intellectual academics. Completely exhausting and intimidating. I dread the annual Christmas get together where I feel like the dunce.
They can never have such a thing as a trivial conversation.

😂😂😂 I could have written this 👏

Has she ever had a job?

Is being a theology/philosophy professor not like being in an MLM scam?

You study a thing, that doesnt get a you a job in the field, so you train to teach other people the thing, who then cant get a job in the field, who then train to teach others, and so on.

Why are some people so rude and dismissive of any interaction that isn’t deep and meaningful by referring to it as ‘small talk’ or ‘chit chat’? People who want to endlessly discuss how many angels can fit onto the head of a pin are often extremely self centred. They probe you like you’re on a psychiatrist’s couch, feigning interest. But the only reason they do it is so that they can get to the good bit where they get to bang on about their own amazing insights. You are, basically, their sounding board. Or, as I like to call it, victim. There is a happy medium between small talk, ie pleasantries, and full on analysis of the universe.

So it's ok to call people "normies" ( whatever the fuck that is)
So what would the opposite of that be then?
🙄🤔

A parent wanting to know their child isn’t something to loathe. Mildly irritating if not your style, ok, but loathe? Sounds like maybe there’s some deeper issues there.

This is a bit of a silly comparison. In academia, research and teaching are interlinked. You don’t just sit around thinking all day - that isn’t the job! The job is part teaching and part research (which involves not just reading others’ work and writing new work, but also discussion with others — for example, attending conferences and seminars, at which there will be all levels of participation from professors to graduate students).

There’s no dividing line between “doing the job” and “teaching others”. It’s both together.

I hated the intensity, and the deep
probing and questioning. I felt smothered by it.

Just enjoy it, she has a lot to say and values your opinion. If it gets too difficult just tell her this is getting way over my head lets go for another topic.

My DDs specialist subject is history, very interesting but she is into fairly obscure corners of history (for instance more Stephen and Matilda than Henry VIII) she reads masses of 'heavy' books, and likes to discuss the theories and people's lives. I think she sometimes likes my layman's input, but I do lose the plot sometimes and start forgetting who is who or even which century we are in! But it does get you out of the routine stuff and exercises the little grey cells as Hercule would say.

I'm not sure, I don't see much of him. He lives far away, he hates visitors staying overnight, he has a lot of pets and they are afraid of children so he doesn't like children around. My daughter is very gentle and never approaches an animal without permission but they run off when they see her.

His wife rolls her eyes when he goes off and has also told him that it's boring after one particularly long rant about some studies he's read on the harms caused by driving children to school (he knows we've chosen a school which needs driving to because it's quite remote). Lately, a lot of the rants have been about parenting as they are expecting. My experience as a qualified teacher with 2 kids, one now almost grown up, counts for nothing apparently. He wants to homeschool and teach them animal husbandry and harmony with nature, and also they are not going to eat any sugar or UPFs and will learn to read as babies. His wife rolls her eyes at all that too.

I've got everything crossed that having an actual baby and realising they are unpredictable and unreasonable and not lumps of clay to be moulded into his vision of the perfect woodland druid might lighten him up a bit.

Have a look at love languages. I wonder if this is her way of getting close to you, by sharing her feelings.

Im like your daughter and have a mother like you. I always felt like I was an annoyance. Then I became aware of the TD Jakes talk on Oprah about some people being gallon people and some being pint people. I don’t talk to my mother anymore but I am more understanding that some people are just not on my level.

My daughter is like me. I find it hard sometimes and overstimulated but I never want her to feel like I did. I’m the first person she wants to talk to about things and I love that. It makes me sad to hear from mothers who find their kids quirks annoying. The kids know and it will hurt them.

i get your point but at the same time your daughter sounds amazing, personally id use wikipedia to keep up with her ideas etc but yes it can be varied

i believe its "nerds" not that its right

Can you buy her a joke book and tell her to lighten up.
Nobody wants heavy stuff all the time. She will drive everyone away.