AIBU to ask my 24 year old son to leave home?

[Jasmine1970]

After behaving very badly over Christmas I would like to ask my son to leave, he has been staying since September and plans to leave on April for a summer job abroad, he eill
doin turn 25. He dropped out of uni in his 3rd year and worked last summer at a sky jumping centre. He loves sky jumping and white water kayaking,
He was supposed to help me with my business but has done very little and over the last few months I’ve didn’t £1,500 paying a handyman to do jobs he could have done. I pay for his car insurance, petrol and food.
He says he wants a job but dues very little to get one. I had to redo his CV as it was terrible.

I know if I say he can’t love at home he will guilt trip me about it. But I feel that he’s missing out on vital life lessons that he would learn from fending for himself.
He’s quite happy, has a big collection of kayaks, some of which now reside on my kitchen, and he takes them out on trips in his old banger. Has a very sweet girlfriend who also comes round to the house from
time to time.
From time to time I lose my rag when customers phone me with complaints relating to jobs he hasn’t done, but promised to do.
He can be rude to me and act in an entitled way, for example we were in a shop today and he picked up a load of beef jerky that came to £40 and expected me to pay for it, I don’t have spare money for such expensive things,
should o ask him to move out and how should I do this in a kind reasonable way, ?

Fwiw, DH has a great job and pays the mortgage.

There are no kayaks in our kitchen. I kicked off when he tried that. I don't want sewer water contaminated objects which stick in my kitchen.

I have been paddling with him before and I'm happy for him to paddle in his spare time.

In terms of a winter job - DH keeps suggesting to his mate that he does a short gas or plumber course as he's good at DIY. That way he could just do emergency call outs (which are well paid) over the winter and on days he's not paddling the rest of the year on his own terms and still paddle / climb / sky dive whatever. He doesn't. So he's living in a van.

You are not being a bitch you are being a supportive parent to an adult child, you can't be everything to everybody, set out your expectations for him till April i would say give him employment and expect his hours to be met, then leave it at that, you don't have to over analyse it that gives him space to manipulate you.

OP, re opportunities for work, he might find something interesting on Tresco or one of the other islands in the Isles of Scilly.

https://www.tresco.co.uk/work-on-tresco

OMG! He sounds really obnoxious!
I suspect you've got much bigger problems than him just not working.
I'd be reading him the riot act regarding all of that rude behaviour and talk to him about showing some respect. I'd throw him out immediately if he refuses.
Also, tell him to write to his granny and apologise for his obnoxious behaviour.

If he has unhappy customers, then presumably he is working in some capacity?! So why on earth are you funding him?

his behaviour on Christmas Day sounds irritating but nothing horrific.

people only behave in ways they are allowed to, put our foot down

I think i would say

"son your 25 now, a grown man. It's time you moved out of my house, to live on your own and make your own way in the world as i did. I'm happy to be here for you when you need me but it's time you started to live as an adult along with all that entails."

I would only pay him for work he has done for you that you agreed on. I would not ever pay for petrol for his car or buy him food, because he has the option of working and is choosing not to. I might cook for him if I felt like it, but if I just wanted to have a quick something on my own, I wouldn't consider what he was going to cook or eat. Hopefully he would soon have a change of heart and realise that he is going to do the jobs or get another job after all.

I am so entirely unsurprised that that is thr family background @Jasmine1970. It explains a whole lot.

Don’t feel bad at all. You are actually doing him a big, big kindness and it sounds like you have an enormous amount on your plate and have for many years.

YABU to describe yourself as a 'bitch'.
Or to even think about giving him another 3-4 months of sponging off you at your house.

He could go to his dad's tomorrow. And arrange storage for his kayaks, there or somewhere else. He is more than old enough to take responsibility for his life, finances and future. And maybe a bit of tough advice from his father/ other relatives would be good for him.

If you have a need to put things 'in writing' or make a record, you could start by printing out this thread and the responses you've had. You could even show it to him one day if he ever has the cheek to accuse you of treating him unfairly...

Is the granny whose whisky etc he stole and chair he broke the same one who just had a stroke?!

It really makes me want to eat my own head when parents go on about all the bad stuff their adult children do and then go on to say how they fund their lifestyle by paying for car insurance , petrol and so on. It's enablement at its worst.

Feels a bit late to start worrying about his life lessons.

Stop paying for everything and start laying down some ground rules and deadlines.

Yes his granny just had a stroke 5 months ago.

ive been decluttering her house and said he could take some old bottles of rum, martini and liqueur that nobody uses. When unpacking the car I found some expensive gin, malt whiskey and fine brandy. I will return them and he got a telling off.

At 24/25, who was paying your bills and living expenses @Jasmine1970 ? I expect that you were, just as I was. I know that housing is more expensive than it was for our generation (guessing that you’re in your 50’s like me given the 1970 in your name :-) so parents providing accommodation for longer is more common, but he should be paying his other bills.

Be blunt if you need to be and tell him that he’s too old to expect you to subsidize him- he may want to still act like a teenager, but he isn’t one! I’d quite like to still be 30, but I’m not. 😂

Thanks so much for all the advice. It’s helping me work out what to say, I’ve been discussing these posts with my mum, all very helpful,

i will wait until after the festivities to tackle the issues. I realise I’m playing a big part in allowing bad behaviour, so I need to step up.

He makes very little contribution to the household chores and generally leaves his plate on the table and his clothes strewn across the bathroom etc,

I’ve played a big part in allowing this. I often don’t feel I’ve got the energy left to battle with him to do chores.

it’s hard to have the discussion. We were in the car yesterday and he quickly brought up his childhood and says I was a bad parent, so I’m to blame for everything. He’s invented a whole strange version of events. I told him he had to discuss this with other people in the family and friends who witnessed his childhood as everyone has different perspectives. That the truth is more nuanced. It could be this was a bad day and a negative train of thought on that day, but he definitely can easily go into this mode of blaming me for his troubles.

if he won’t discuss things then I will change the locks and let him back in as soon as he agrees.

I’ll first have a discussion about his grievances and try to listen and take in board. Then I’ll discuss working for me. If he wants the job I’ll give him two weeks to get up to speed and create a spreadsheet that all the tasks can be tracked on. (As he’s always complaining that I don’t ask him in the right way, so he has to take ownership or not work for me) He will need to submit his hours each week. Re living at home, I will ask him to pay half the bills, cleaner costs and food. Re the rent, I’ve decided he doesn’t need to pay anything until April, but if he ever came back, he would have to pay market rent into an investment account and provide evidence every month. Re the chores, I’ll sit down and agree this in writing, put up a list, just like for a child. Re the Christmas behaviour, he needs to write a letter to granny or move to his dad’s. Re the kayaks, although our Christmas guests had fun sitting in them in the kitchen, he needs to rent a place for them at the kayak club. Re his access to my Amazon account and company card, this will stop and he will need to invoice me. Re his gear lying around everywhere, I’ll give him the downstairs bathroom.

Re his attitude, if he is very angry with me about his childhood and the behaviour is a way of punishing me, then I’ll ask him to go to his dads. As this dynamic seems very dysfunctional and isn’t helping him
progress in life. It feels to me like the way his father behaved (that I was to do all domestic work and earn all the money while he did a hobby and criticised) I’ll try to listen and take on board the complaints as I did make mistakes as all mothers do.

Wow @Jasmine1970 you sound resolute.

Think about the car & phone regime if you haven't already. When you are distributing chores give him ones that don't directly impact on you. For example if he's on dishwasher emptying and you're on stacking, then if he doesn't do his job it stops you being able to do yours and that gets irritating very quickly.

As he’s always complaining that I don’t ask him in the right way

My DD says this to me and it gives me the rage. I speak to her the way i speak to everyone else. She just wants me to pander to her and blow smoke up her jacksay - it's not happening. She spends more time moaning about it than doing the actual task she's been asked to do. Gets to the stage she gets told JFDI.

This still sounds like a huge amount of effort and compromise and sacrifice on your part.

I reckon youre still being a bit too generous ;)

Allocating tasks is basically “wifework” - it still suggests the burden is on the woman. Asking in the right way, hmmm, again this is just blame shifting. It might be simpler to say that this is his final chance, you expect him to do an equal share around the house and contribute fairly, you are not going to school him in what that looks like, he can look it up on google if he needs to. If he wants you to pay him for the work he does, he needs to do it welll, be organised and on top of it HIMSELF, if he does not do this he will have to go and live with his father or elsewhere.

I'd focus on preparing him to leave in April. Better to learn in to the direction of travel. Make it clear he needs to move all his stuff out.

You are giving him plenty of notice, I would not engage too much about his terrible childhood - just apologise for any hurts he has and tell him you did your best but need to focus on what is happening now. Events in the past should never be used to excuse bad behaviour in the present - he is taking no responsibility for his actions and that is unacceptable.

Absolutely this. Looking for accommodation that ends in April is not going to be easy. I am sure you would feel guilty about leaving him homeless.

For everything else, he is taking advantage. You will have to be strong though. Resisting the little voice in your head that says “but he is my baby!” Is hard. You do need to teach him a sense of responsibility though. He is 25 years old he can earn his own way in life.

Oh wow, that’d ensure I had no more qualms over the issue, and he’s get his marching orders to be gone, anywhere, within a fortnight from today, and all subventions would cease immediately. Room and board, and that’s it.

What an utter piece of shit. I’d endure a lot, but wanton cruelty, plus the thieving, would clear my head of all remaining ifs and buts. He’s no longer welcome and can feck off into the world and fend for himself, as he ought to have been doing before now anyway.

Dropping out in his third year at uni was a bloody idiotic move, wasn’t it? But at 25, he ought not be such a determined waster, degree or not.

Kicking him out wouldn’t spell the end of your relationship.
It’s a clinical necessity, that’s all, but he’ll get over the shock to the system and will surely come round to seeing the moment as an inevitability, given all his dreadful behaviour to you.

But I think you have to act with determination, and swiftly. I’d not trust him to think twice about destroying some load-bearing aspect of your life at this stage. He needs a bloody good kick up the hole, as the poet said.

With New Year Resolutions this is a good time to lay some new ground rules.

I understand that his work is seasonal. However, I would offer that he works properly for you or he signs on for Job Seekers allowance, which is approx £90 a week, so his National Insurance contributions would be paid towards his state pension & other benefits & he would have to apply for jobs & attend the job centre.

Does he work for you as self employed ?

Does he submit a yearly self assessment tax return ?

He really has it made if you ate able to offer him work each time he returns

However, he should be paying for his car, mobile, food & living èxpenses at 25. Do you want him to be in the same situation at 35, 45+ ?

I know a few people who work abroad & work in UK for part of the year. Brexit rules have made things more difficult.

Do you or your DM have outside space for the kayaks ? or store at a local sailing club.

Good luck

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance

He’s a adult. Time he joined the grown up world. So, yes, give him a reasonable date to leave, and let him go. 👍

If you ask him nicely to leave, how is he going to do that? In order to rent a room in a shared flat/house he’ll need a deposit, a months rent in advance and references.

And a guarantor.

The rental market is brutal nowadays. The knee jerk "kick them out" reactions are ill thought through. No decent landlord will rent to anyone with no income and no guarantor.

My record starts from my first job at 16 ongoing to now

Each person, can view each year

https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record