to think no one can define living as a woman

[funtimess]

if you are a biological man.

Or indeed define living as a man if they are a biological woman.

What is the definition, how do you define a person ‘living" as the opposite sex?

AIBU to think that nobody is going to be able to define this unless they resort to regressive stereotypes.

YABU - I can define this for you without using regressive stereotypes.
YANBU - You are right, you can’t define this without using regressive stereotypes.

But this is so confusing @MarvellousMonsters
Are thy women or men, I just can't tell.
😀

You do know that women can be raped by women, right? I did indeed used to work in DV and sexual violence (a long time ago now). And you're correct. It's hard if someone is very vulnerable and having to share a space. Where you're wrong is assuming that supportive environments simply involve in making them single sex. The way to help is to refuse access to all rapists.

In terms of the abuser accessing the single sex DV centre his female victim [sic] is in, yes, it's a constant battle, that's why refuges are in 'secret' locations and fortified ... Because oddly, most blokes who attack / access refuges aren't wearing a frock, a full face of make up and carrying a fetching clutch bag. Instead, they just turn up, often drunk and wielding something that could be classed as an offensive weapon, and try to batter their way in.

Ladies, with the best will in the world - as someone who's worked with Probation talking to sex offenders as part of attempts at rehabilitation - the two single biggest factors they mentioned were either:

1. they knew the person
2. the person had long hair / hair in a pony tail (grabbable)

But hey, let's just carry on slagging off anyone who's trans. Giant bloody distraction.

Western Aid Charities build single sex spaces in poor countries
(toilets, wash spaces, clothes washing areas)
for women

and rip out single sex spaces in their rich world office buildings
to comply with the demands of intolerant authoritarian 'progressives'

Everybody knows what sex they are
Men can LARP as women
but never BE

Don't worry no-one can, apparently. Skirts and long hair maketh woman but trousers and short hair do not maketh man.

Oh goody what a fresh hot new take!

Oh @funtimess they must be wimmin as they have long hair and are wearing skirts/dresses!! You’re so silly!

No because it's not the same thing. Men think differently to women.

since rape is violation with a penis - no a women can’t rape another woman
they can aid a rape
thet can sexually assault a woman
they can’t rape
they can’t leave the victim pregnant with a child form violence
and it’s also rather rare

of course if you redefine men to be women it muddies the waters

You do know that women can be raped by women, right?

Not in England, Wales and Northern Ireland they can't, as rape is defined in law as penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth with a penis without consent.

In Scotland it's the same definition but including penetration with a surgically constructed penis, so a transman i.e. a woman could theoretically be charged with rape.

Women can't rape, what on earth are you talking about.

Only because they have been socialised differently @ARunByFruiting If male and female children are raised the same way without gender stereotypes this wouldn’t happen.

But men can and do wear makeup, and women who don't wear makeup are still women, therefore wearing makeup doesn't make you a woman, nor is it 'specifically female.'

.

Ah, so you're not in the UK (no wolves here). That may explain why you are confusing the NHS (health service) with the GRA (gender recognition act).

The requirement to 'live as a woman' for 2.years is to get a gender recognition certificate. There is no such requirement to get treatment (there is also no requirement.to get medical, surgical or psycholocical treatment in order to get a certificate; and it's considered deeply transphobic to insist that trans people must have treatment).

So to answer your question about how I propose people 'meet the requirement', I don't. Men cannot live as women; women cannot live as men. And it's ridiculous to require people to do so order to get a piece of paper saying that they are doing so. If men want to wear dresses, make up, long hair and high heels that's their business - it worked fine for Louis XIV after all. It is not the state's business, and it doesn't make them women.

And yet, why would you add to someone’s trauma and distress by having accommodation or support groups where male people are being included and the female people there are being told that those male people are women?

We are fully aware that most sex offences are committed by someone they know. This doesn’t change the fact that female people need single sex provisions and that not one male above about 8 years old should be included.

It also doesn’t change the reports from women in supposedly female single sex shelters where male people being allowed in have caused them harm including sex abuse within that shelter.

So these things are only gender stereotypes if worn by men?

It interests me when people say there’s no such thing as presenting as female but in the same breath say they can ‘always tell’ if someone is trans.

That's not a contradiction. It's the same thing.

A man is a man, however he's dressed. A woman is a woman, however she's dressed.

It’s not “presenting” as female / ie it’s not a way you choose to look. Presenting implies doing something to make you look female

its that you have a female body. You look female because you are, not because of how you present yourself

I can wear DH clothes, shave my head , yet I am still clearly female. It’s not how I chose to present myself that makes me look female

But woman is a category of person so how do we define what that category is? If you do that by saying that it someone who dresses and presents themselves as a ' typical' woman, can you not see how that absolutely negates the importance of thr actual physical sex that they are.. If they present in a "typically female way", then we are saying someone's physical sex does not matter and that it is entirely reductive to refer to physical sex.

Are you effectively agreeing with that? because if you are what do you say to gay men and women who define themselves as attracted to someone woth the same physical sexual attributes as they themselves have. Since this is a a way they define their identity, you are telling them that definition should not exist or is not in anyway important . What about the very real medical issues and related treatments that differ based on sexual physiology. Are those not important?

I.just don't understand how people can't see this. It is so obvious. I absolutely agree that some people may feel like they are the opposite sex and I would always try , where possible to accommodate this in my behaviour towards them, but not at the expense of reality and not at the expense of my hard won rights as a biological woman . ( I am actually not sure what a woman is if the definition is not centred in biology)

They have self-ID in Spain and as a result have many 'non-normative' trans - men who change nothing about themselves whatsoever, but claim the legal status of female, along with the rights that go with it. This is the logical endpoint of this ideology.

“It interests me when people say there’s no such thing as presenting as female but in the same breath say they can ‘always tell’ if someone is trans”

I too find this an inconsistent point.

Because who says they can always tell if someone is ‘trans’? Many people say that they have a high likelihood of correctly identifying the sex of male people no matter how they present themselves. A few people say they can always tell. Why would people doubt that some people might be always able to detect who is the male sex?

Being able to correctly identify someone of the male sex is about understanding and interpreting male body cues.

And this is irrelevant to how someone ‘presents’.

Such as this?

nypost.com/2024/03/06/world-news/spanish-soldiers-changing-gender-to-female-for-added-benefits/

Disclosure this was another posters but relevant when someone posts that “you do know women rape too"

Every 3 seconds a domestic abuse incident is reported to police
93% of defendants in domestic abuse cases are male

62% of women reported fear of public spaces due to men as a sex class

1 in 4 women will be raped or assaulted by a man in their lifetime

Approx. 3 women per week die by suicide as a result of domestic abuse

98% arrested for sexual assault are male

79800 women across England and Wales are raped or sexually assaulted every year

94% of rape survivors are women

5 in 6 women who are raped don’t report it to the police

9 in 10 girls in schools, say sexist name-calling and being sent unwanted images of a sexual nature happens to them or their peers.

Please don’t post that women rape too you know!

Then in this thought experiment, the question becomes what actually is a woman and can a man actually be one? In a society where there was not a diffeence in how the sexes are perceived or treated, what would ' feeling like a woman' mean? Can a man actually BE a woman?

My personal answer to this is not he can't be a woman ever really. He may want to present as a woman in a society where there is a difference in the way different sexes present themselves and are treated, so that he wants to be treated in the same way as as a woman is ( in that society) That doesn't actually make him a woman

If you put that man in a society where the only difference between men and women is unchangeable physiology with no outward evidence of that physiological difference( while dressed anyway) and no differnce in how people treat you, denying your physiology becomes more clearly a mental health issue .

I can't necessarily tell the difference between a gender non-conforming man, a performance artist, and a 'transgender woman', unless they tell me. The difference is entirely in their head, which makes it annoying to be told off for misgendering.

So, no, I can't always tell who's trans, unless they tell me.

An unconscious adult is brought into a hospital A&E
Staff remove their clothing to treat injuries.
So this is now a person wearing a gown and unable to speak.

Their sex will be obvious - from thigh / pelvis angle alone.

Their gender will be completely un knowable
because it is a belif system, not reality.