To think lots of people have a second child just because it's 'the done thing' ?

[DairyMilkMaid]

DS has just turned 3, which means the question of whether or not to have another baby has been coming up a lot more recently. DH and I are leaning more towards being one and done (for lots of reasons) but we're still not 100% certain.

I met up with a friend this morning and she asked if we thought we'd have any more DCs. I said I wasn't sure and asked her how she knew she was ready for her second. She sort of shrugged and said 'I wasn't, but it's just what you do isn't it?'. When I asked what she meant, she basically said that it never even occurred occurred her to stop at one, and she never felt the urge to have a second, she just....did.

I was a bit surprised, but thinking about it, I've seen this attitude a few times. Another friend of mine really struggled with PPD and her relationship nearly broke down, but she went on to have a second. Her whole pregnancy she was depressed and was dreading the baby being born, and though she loves her DD2 dearly, she quite often says life would have been easier if she'd stopped at one. She never wanted a second either, she just didn't want her DD to be an only child.

You see threads on here sometimes where women had a horrendous experience of pregnancy, childbirth and motherhood, but are reluctantly going for a second, and I can't help but wonder why. It's like for some people it's not even an option to just have one child.

I don't understand this. If the parents are the ones bringing up the children and providing for them, then surely they need to make the decisions based on personal and individualistic reasons.

Is the answer then that people bring in children they neither want or can afford just because its a civic duty? How is the state going to support all these children financially and with the expected mental health problems that will come from a childhood with parents who didn't want them?

People should only have children if they want them. They don't owe any more children to society than they can cope with or want. And China had an only child policy for decades and it's economy seems to be doing alright!

I’ve no idea how many people do this but it’s not something I’ve come across personally. We really wanted both of our children. We, and people we know, took having children seriously and wouldn’t have just had them because it’s the done thing. I’d think anyone doing it for that reason is in some way vulnerable/has issues of some kind.

I know a lot of people who really wanted more children and struggled so that seems more common to me than having children for the sake of it.

Funny, as a young mum I never ever had anyone say this to me, in fact the complete opposite (despite nothing to criticise about my parenting) see it as a compliment!! I’ve now got 6 and ironically now I’m an age when I’d have to be phenomenally fertile to have another baby (mid-late 40s) - our last little miracle was was born just before I was 45. I get people asking me all time why I don’t just have another 🤣

what lie back and think of England?

No thanks.

What kind of judgement do you get for only wanting one child?

Personally I think only children can thrive and don’t need siblings - I’m amazed people are so narrow minded.

I also think although kids definitely don’t NEED siblings, large families can be great as well..

I just think we need less narrow mindedness- at both ends of the family size scale

This is a similar post to LongBreath's so I'll just quote yours if that's ok.

I get what you're both saying, but the societal consequences if the current birthrate continues will make your concerns about these hypothetical children's mental health look trifling.

Again, nobody seems to be able to see past the end of their noses on this issue. Has it ever even crossed either of your minds what is in store in the future if we don't have the working age population to prop up the rapidly ageing portion of society?

Also just to add: plenty of people in the past and present have had second and third kids in a less than "planned" way and those kids were loved just as much as their siblings. The idea that we'd have loads of neglected, hated kids is a bit laughable.

But just to reiterate: I don't have an answer as to how we encourage more people to have more babies. It's been tried in various places before and not really with any success. But that doesn't mean we should all just stick our heads back in the sand.

I have one. She's 4. I'm not having another.

My mum had my younger brother so that I wouldn't be alone when my parents died. He's more of a hindrance than anything. I'm probably going to be guilt tripped into looking after him long after they're gone.

A re-organisation of society would be a better aim than trying to make women have children they don't want.

Yes, you keep making the same point. But parenting is fundamentally an individual decision. Carrying a child if you’re a woman is an individual decision — I mean, you are literally sharing your body with another organism. You are potentially endangering your own health (DS and I both nearly died while I was giving birth) and depleting your earning power for the best part of two decades.

Choosing to have a child should only ever be an individual decision. Because the upshot for both child and parent is too catastrophic if parenting is undertaken for anyone reason other than ‘Because I want a child and feel I can be a good enough parent’.

This is interesting. What sort of reorganisation? Get the pensioners back to work maybe?

DD1 was unplanned. (DH and I were still undecided at the time about whether to have children). But once we had her I really didn't want her to be an only child.

I am one of two sisters close in age and my DSis and I have been very close all our lives. Even when we lived far apart she was my best friend. Our childhood was a bit weird and our mother is frankly batshit and DSis is the only person who knows everything we experienced back then. If she wasn't around I'd have had to deal with batshit DM by myself plus I wouldn't have had her support when my DH died.

I'm so glad we had DD2 as they also have a close sibling relationship which I hoped they would have. Plus they now share the experience of having lost their father as teenagers and hopefully will always be able to support each other. I realise that not everyone is lucky enough to have children who like each other and are friends.

I certainly didn't want more than 2, I'm not the earth mother type at all!!

What you say makes sense. But does it mean that you don't care about the future of your country? Or do you think the current trajectory is hunky dory?

I work in adult social work so trust me the future of an ageing population is at the very forefront of what I do.

But I know that popping out babies isn't the answer or solution to it. It requires a much bigger solution and conversation than just the expectation women will just pop out babies.

And maybe people had siblings in less desired way but people had also much more support back then. Families are much more scattered and childcare costs are extortionate. It's right that people that takes these things into account. Also times have moved on and people have choices now that we maybe didn't in previous generations.

This was not the case for me. I’m 1 of 4 and even though I’m not close to my older siblings, whilst growing up, I was always grateful that I had my younger brother. He’s just a year younger than me so we’re very close and he’s always been a shoulder to rely on, same as me to him. Growing I’d always thought I’ll have 2 children, I met DH and he was the same as well. We had DC1 and was certain we’ll have another, it didn’t even cross my mind to stop at 1. Well, we had 3 in the end and I can’t imagine it any other way.
I don’t feel any different when I see people who have none, have 1 or have 10, it’s a personal decision really.

I knew I always wanted two. Ended up with a boy and girl with a 2 year age gap. They are teens now but im so glad I had 2. They had each other to play with, especially when going on holiday etc. Our lives would have been much quieter with just one and I didn't want that.
I was an only child and didn't mind it at the time. But it has shaped who I am and I dont like parts of myself. I am quite selfish, like to be alone, and as a child would get jealous if my parents paid attention to other kids. I didn't want my kids to be like that

To give a slightly less facetious answer:

I actually agree with you. So I guess what I'm saying we need to do is figure out how to make more women WANT to have more children.

Thanks for this.

I sound like a broken record but I have to ask again: if we don't start having more babies, what is your solution to the ageing population problem?

TBH @LarryMiddleman I think that indirectly and directly blaming those awful selfish women for not having more children 'for the sake of the country' is a complete nonsense.

It's generally speaking the women families who have far fewer children who lessen the burden on the state throughout their entire lives. For the simple reason they tend to have more money with which to support themselves.

And shall we talk about men? Those who think they can put off having children indefinitely and forever? Who we see examples on MN talked about ad infinitum who string women along until they are well part their child bearing years with the promises of 'one day'.

Less talk about women who 'need to' do this or that when they are exactly who are propping up the state and society as carers, the squeezed middle, the ones who are taking the hit for so much in so many ways, please.

More one that isn't centred around work as God at all, where we don't need to raise vast amount of an essentially imaginary resource for people to exist comfortably.

I had a second because I wanted my child to have a sibling, not because it was 'the done thing'. I think if you have a good relationship with your own sibling (which I do) and were brought up in a family with more than one child, it's what you're comfortable with.

Even though dsis and I were very different from each other younger children, I look back on my childhood, especially holidays, and think how much less fun it would have been if it had been just me. Dd and ds (now 20 and 17) have always been great friends. I'm so glad zi had a second.

Just to clarify, I in no way meant to imply that this was solely for women to worry about. There are so many stable, healthy, educated families who are electing to have only one child, like you point out. It's those families (ie. The men and women as a unit) who I think should be considering the consequences of our birth rate.

You can talk about state burden all you like but the basic figures are dire. We need more children.

Well ironically, it's because of the importance of work and careers that the birth rate is so low!

After every child we've been asked if we having another or when we are.

I have three DC.

I think it's just small talk TBH. DH an only his Mum goes on about how eveyone told her to have another but she was as bad never listening to what we said - we'd always wanted three (did waver about 4 th after first one) - she insisted to everyone we were only having one like her.

People should have the number of kids they want and can support - be that none or many.

You’re gibbering now. The UK is a very dense population. Our services our on the brink of collapse, because we have too few families who are net tax contributors - having children that one can ill afford isn’t the answer to much frankly. Once global warming/climate change are accounted for, you’re on very shaky ground, even from a theoretical stand point.

I'm an only child. I wanted more than one baby myself because being an only child can feel lonely. (It wasn't to be, but we live much closer to family than my parents did and my kid sees her peer-aged cousins very regularly.)

Edited to add that I also really like children and really enjoyed parenting from the off, though who knows if Baby #2 would have been as easy as Baby #1 was!

What has made me sad and also quite outraged is how many people I know who have a second child at least in part because they are convinced their first child will be massively spoilt and a total shithead if they don't. One of my friends regularly says (to me, an only child) that her oldest would have been "even worse" if she'd been an only child. I wasn't spoilt, for the record, because my parents had a good sense of proportion and limited funds and didn't spoil me.

So I'd just like to put it out there that only children aren't psychopaths and we won't be spoiled unless our parents decide to spoil us!