To wonder why I put myself through the awfulness of having a toddler again?

[whydidiputmyselfthroughit]

Seriously, I really do question it. I hated it with ds and didn’t start to enjoy parenting him until he was four. And I’m back in that place again but this time with another child’s needs to try to balance.

If you adore toddlers and think that when you’re ninety you’ll look back and want another day with them this is NOT the thread for you. Nor is it a thread for those struggling with teens; you have your own board.

I really do not know what the hell I was thinking.

I still don’t really understand the post you quoted, tbh. I think - think the poster had secondary infertility (and I don’t want to dismiss her pain ) and seemed to think I was being smug about having two? I’m really not, though. It was probably the worst decision of my life and I’m not saying that as an emotional reaction to the recent awfulness of DD. I don’t think there hasn’t been a day in the last twelve months or so I haven’t regretted having two.

Can you divide and concur? DH and I would sometimes take a child each so that both could have some 1 on 1 time and attention.
Since they were about 4 and 6 they have pretty easy and have a great relationship. I think from this age it's easier to have 2 than 1. Mine will play together and I don't need to be involved. They still bicker of course, but on the whole it's easier.

This sounds incredibly tough and you sound exhausted. This stage will pass, of course, you already know that - but you need help now. Where is her father in this?

I wonder whether her eating patterns could be affecting her behaviour? It might be time to ask a doctor about her development, if only to put your mind at rest.

You probably have thought of all this, but for this moment can you rule out over-tiredness, pain, and hunger? Saying what little she’s eating made me wonder if she could have a blockage somewhere and be uncomfortable.

Mine would get more and more wired as she got more tired, so her dad used to miss the cues that she desperately needed to sleep, and that made things very hard.

More widely, is it possible for you to get some 1:1 time with your older child on a routine basis, like taking him out for tea or breakfast once a week or something, while her dad has her?

I do hope you find a solution and enjoy your children once again. This is obviously a really hard period to go through.

I feel you through and through op. Cannot tell you how much I hated, loathed and despised the toddler years. My kids were hard work from day 1- colic, reflux, massive sleep issues, Velcro babies and toddlers, incredibly fussy with food, high needs, hated it. At 4 it changed for the better so just wait it out.

People say you will miss it, I know I won’t.i look back at the photos and all I remember was how hard it was.

Being on toddler number 6 and with grown up children, I get those alternative perspectives but can understand they are not helpful to you in the here and now. 2 of my toddlers were extremely hard work and best thing we found was investing in extra nursery care. Very expensive and we made a lot of sacrifices for it but well worth it and meant enjoyed the time did spend with them so much more

Do you have any grown up support? It sounds like you need a break today.
Perhaps it's not that you can't cope when everyone else can but that others aren't having to cope with this level of emotional turmoil. And you are coping, might not feel fun, enjoyable or even that you want to but you are coping.

If her eating is like this all the time try contacting your local nursery nurse team (region dependant I guess but ours was honestly such a god send!) your GP will likely just say as long as they eat something give them anything. And at this point do actually give her anything she will eat, even if it's biscuits. You deal with the nutritional element in the longer term.
Wear one earbud playing low volume music ( I dislike my ears being touched but I get overwhelmed by certain noises so I've learnt to tolerate the earbuds)

Do consider getting an appointment with the GP in case there's something wrong with her ears? Long shot but could explain some of it

Toddlers can be really tough.
It does sound within the realms of 'normal' toddler behaviour (unfortunately) but thought of a couple of things as you sound worried.

Sometimes you see a bit of a 'regression' before they do/learn something new.
Is it worth getting her checked for tonsils or an ear infection maybe?
They don't always have cold/viral symptoms with them, and the pain will make them grumpy as hell.

Appreciate its Saturday, so maybe try calpol a couple/few times today and see if it makes any difference.
Could be teeth too.

It's the constant level of interaction and activity that out me on my bad days at this age.
Stickers, baking, baths with singing, play dough, toys, jigsaw puzzles, park - all great, but when you are doing them all on repeat 14 - 16 hrs a day..argh!!!
Oh my children didnt eat either. Its a massive PITA.
Picnic lunch on the lounge floor with teddies helped them pick a bit sometimes.

I'd def get the ears/throat/teeth checked or try treating as though they might have.

If you still feel the same next week, can you think about contacting your HV or GP? For you?

Yeah but I always get stuck with the toddler who just screams so …

She actually only had her two and a half review a couple of weeks ago and all was fine, height and weight. I honestly don't know how; while this week has been exceptionally bad she often refuses meals and she won’t snack at all. She does have a lot of milk I guess (not as an alternative to food but when whole days go by without food she ends up having milk at night.)

The future feels very bleak and I can’t see things improving: obviously she isn’t going to be having tantrums at twelve but the screaming and fighting and tears and being unable to meet both sets of needs is not going to end.

And she isn’t always this bad, I do know that. It’s the two of them together, it brings out the very worst in all of us.

That's so true and reading this makes me feel slightly better.

My daughter was a lovely toddler but things started getting trickier when she turned 4. She's 6 now and in lots of ways is harder to parent than ever. I look back at the toddler days with much fondness.

Maybe you'll get all the nonsense out of the way early and have a lovely time when they hit school age, OP.

Possibly a vicious circle, not eating makes her angry and irritable but perhaps eating is making her feel sick/ hurt for some reason. My difficult baby/toddler had silent reflux. It may be worth looking into a medical/physical reason for her distress.

I think it's true about different challenges at different ages. But the relentlessness and exhaustion of 0-4 usually lessens afterwards, giving you more energy and bandwidth to deal with everything. Having more than one child only begins to pay off in terms of playing together once the second is over three. You are nearly there on that front.

Thanks @Mincepiefan . I really am hoping things improve then as at the moment the guilt and the stress is just awful. I’m so jealous of families I see out and about with just one.

I do wonder if this is why we were encouraged to have small age gaps because if you let them get to age four, there’s no way in hell you’d do it again

Does she still have a bottle? I always found too much cows/formula milk at this age gives them very bad constipation/tummy aches. Just sounds like the change in routine, possibly over stimulation from Christmas etc maybe causing extra issues for you all?
As for generally, is there any way you can pay for some extra childcare? We pay for an extra morning a week (in addition to my working days) and helps an awful lot, just being able to whizz round and get the most urgent jobs done. Next week will be paying for the older children to go and attend some activities can leave them at to just give me the break of just having the one at home for a few hours, less mess etc

I feel your pain op. My two are just coming out of a difficult phase (I think/hope) but the last couple of months my younger one has been really hard. My older one has had some health difficulties lately and I just want to give her all my attention.

Ignore that horrid poster upthread.

It's OK to find stuff hard. It's silly for people to be like "at least you have kids!" Yeah, at least I'm not dead or in prison etc. There's obviously a lot of things that could be worse but that doesn't mean it's not hard.

I had five with eighteen months to two years between each. My life was a perpetual cycle of moan, whinge, cry, complain, shouts of "NO!", thrown food and biting from the moment the eldest turned two until the last one got to about three and a half. That's ten years of toddlers.Which probably explains why I now live a solitary and quiet life alone with a small and silent dog.

They're great now, of course. And once the youngest passed the danger age it was huge fun. But I fear my sanity may never be what it once was. Or my hearing.

This reminds me of during the pandemic, I work in the health service but was on maternity leave and my husband works away. With a very bored older baby (who had been fine with the usual outings, baby groups etc until the pandemic) who didn’t nap at all plus homeschooling a 4 and 15 year old, the days were very long for me and the baby/toddler in particular. I remember seeing memes of a harried nurse saying stop complaining about being with your kids. This absolutely made me fume, I can tell you myself and fellow colleagues of several little ones on maternity leave could not wait to get back to work, even with the chance of being knocked off with Covid!

Is she having breastmilk or cows milk?

Means to an end. They'll be lovely when they're older. You'll get there.

My only advice, as a fellow toddler mum, is go outside. We are outside all day, everyday. Invested in some serious waterproof and warm clothes and we're out and about all day (for him, I always forget to buy for me so I'm freezing lol).

Inside, DS is a screaming grump. Outdoors, he is an angel.

Have you tried a back or side carrier? At this age they can't deal with separation. Chuck her on your back and get on with playing with ds?

Thanks for keeping me sane, most of you. Managed to get out today and she actually ate - tiny amounts but still she’s had three minute meals

@AliceAbsolum shes on cows milk. I do think she’s drinking too much generally. She had a baby bottle which I know she shouldn’t but she seems to find it calming. I am going to knock that on the head going forwards except last thing at night. As for the carrier - she’s nearly two and a half years, not months

My aforementioned arsehole toddler still went in the back carrier until he was well over 4! Was the easiest way to keep him a) quiet and b) in one place 😂

Also, I debated whether to mention this or not, as you said you didn't want to hear about teenage years but he has become the loveliest teenager you could imagine. He is chatty and funny and kind and thoughtful, his teachers all say he is a pleasure to have in their class, and basically he is an absolute joy (most of the time, obviously he still has his moments but even I'm not an unrivalled delight 24/7 😂).