Husband is insistent on joining trail hunt tomorrow

[FairViewRosie25]

Not happy. I know they trail hunt but they still take dogs and have their fair share of the sabs.

That’s not what the report said 🤷‍♀️

There is no evidence of widespread misuse of the law though - the anti’s own figures show that. As PPs on this thread have perfectly demonstrated, objections are driven by ignorance and blind prejudice.

Because they’ve been used for legal trail hunting. Why are you so determined that this whole legal activity and the animals and jobs it supports be eradicated? For the sake of a few foxes that will be shot by farmers anyway? I heard tonight that a friend of mine lost all his ducks to foxes recently.

So it is a lie that only 143 actual hunt events out of thousands are monitored?

Where have you got the number of 3200 foxes killed every year when the League Against Cruel Sports only counted 61?

I'm with you on the not a good/evil person debate. There's far too much of that on social media.

But your post seems to conflate 2 separate issues

1. Hunting for food
2. Hunting for sport

I used to be anti both until I spoke to a hunter who killed deer. He ensured that they were killed quickly and humanely and absolutely every part of the animal used. I'm still not wild about it, but I don't think it's wrong. It's probably better than buying factory farmed meat.

Hunting for sport is different. It's not necessary for our survival and there are other ways to generate community cohesion. "I like it" (re your reference to the sound of the bugles) isn't a justification for terrorising a fox or hare.

Trail hunting is so often a smokescreen for actual fox hunting. Badger setts are blocked. Hounds sometimes go off the route and cause harm to livestock or domestic animals.

If none of those things happen then that particular hunt is probably okay, but I still think it should be banned becuase those things DO happen all too often.

Google says £2.4 millions worth of farm animals. I will try to look at the stats behind this claim. But my initial reaction is that defenders of the practice either struggle with reading comprehension or are so quick to defend it they aren't interested in evidence.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

I didn’t say they did. I’m pointing out the vast difference in reaction here (and in government) from people who purport to care about animals. The death of 24,000 farm animals or millions of non stun slaughtered animals has raised one weak “I don’t condone that” on here (and almost no reaction from the government) whereas people are rather more energetic in making public their raging prejudice against people who participate in legal hunts.

Huge assumptions are made on the emotional reactions and reasons for participating in the hunt and again are driven by extreme prejudice, generally against the ‘toffs’, as people mistakenly assume the social status of participants.

The prejudice on here against even people who participate in legal hunts that don’t kill anything is clear. Why are they held responsible for the actions of others? Do we hold all dog walkers responsible for the criminally negligent actions of some?

If you read the thread, I corrected that yesterday.

Glad to hear it! But the fact that you believed it uncritically is a bit bizarre... I mean, 2.4 million farm animals? I don't follow the topic, but I grew up in a farming community and my first instinct was that this was unlikely.

@BundleBoogie

it’s disgusting to chase and rip apart animals
Its disgusting to pretend it doesn’t happen
Its high time it was completely banned

Your posts on here clearly show you are in complete denial of the disgusting and abhorrent activities of trail hunts. The few that kept with the law will lose out but because they shoot the dogs when not good enough for the chase they should all stop.
I honestly don’t care how ‘human’ hunters and supporters might suffer

didums

Exactly

tbh I'd be just as upset at them picking up hares. Hares have, I believe, (open to correction) suffered more population decline than foxes have.

I guess having useless hounds is some consolation but I don't blame you for being upset.

Do you know why he wants to go? Is it something he's expressed interest in previously?

No, they don't eat the foxes! The hounds rip the live fox apart, and may then have the chance to eat it, I don't know, but the humans don't eat it.

If there is a child present on their first hunt, they are bloodied (I think that is the correct term), which is where they have blood from the dead fox smeared onto their face.

Hunting foxes like that - which is totally done for the entertainment of the hunt members, and where any other excuses are just plain, straightforward lies - is one of the most disgusting and revolting pastimes that I have ever heard of. Imo it is a form of torture, and it is therefore, totally unacceptable! I call it a pastime as I cannot call it a sport, as there is nothing sporting about it.

However, if someone is born and brought up in circumstances where the only way to provide nutrition and protein for their family, is to hunt and kill just enough meat that they can eat before it goes off, then I consider that to be acceptable, as long as other safeguards are employed too. Some of the other safeguards would be:

Don't hunt in the animal's mating or birthing seasons;

Only hunt when the hunter has been trained to be an excellent marksman - whatever type of weapon they use;

Don't hunt an animal that has not yet reached full maturity.

Don't hunt if you, the hunter, are unwell, or not in top form, for whatever reason.

I knew that I had to become a vegetarian when I was able to be honest enough with myself to know that, if I had to be the one to kill an animal before I could eat it, I would starve...

Huge assumptions are made on the emotional reactions

The emotional reactions only seem to be coming from hunt supporters to be honest

But the point is that no-one has to explain or justify their views about things like slaughter for meat or farm animals being killed by accident, because that is not what this thread is about. It's perfectly possible to have strong views about all of those things without expressing them on a thread that is about something else.

What you are complaining about, in reality, is that your repeated and desperate attempts at weak "What about..." arguments aren't succeeding.

Ok cool. A ban on all dog walking on farmland is obviously a necessity. You’re happy to make the majority responsible for the actions of a minority, so be it.

I take it you have evidence to back your claim that it’s the majority of trail hunts that act unlawfully because the reports/convictions don’t back it?

I’m afraid PPs on here have made their selective prejudice very clear. So have the government.

Oh bore off with this repetitive nonsense. This is a thread about trail hunting which is why people are discussing the harms of trail hunting specifically, and not all the other stuff you keep going on about. It doesn’t mean that people don’t take issue with the other examples, or are not “up in arms” about them. Not sure how many times I have to say this.

Well only 1% of trail hunts lay trails for a start. Evidence is already upthread and has already been ignored by you.

LTB

I have just discovered that my boss (small business) trail hunts. I plan to give notice this week.

I keep my dogs on leads around farm animals (live in a farming area). So I’m not swayed by that argument.

And 2.4 million farm animals killed by pet dogs? In the UK? I think you have your stats wrong!

People who trail hunt are people who would hunt, if not for the law. They do it for enjoyment.

I corrected that stat already - it’s £2.4 million worth of farm animals killed horribly by loose pet dogs - that is a significant number of animals and that’s just the recorded attacks.

It is great that you don’t let your dog off the lead but it doesn’t negate the argument at all as many other people are clearly grossly negligent.

Re your claim about the motivations of people who trail hunt, you actually have no idea what they are thinking and why they do things but you are clearly determined to think the worst.

I think negligent dog owners cause far more damage. I’ve not heard of any trail hunts mauling people to death, or thousands of farm animals.

Agree
This info from a report in2023

Nearly 1,000 incidents of fox hunts wreaking havoc in the countryside or involved in suspected illegal hunting have been recorded by leading animal welfare charity the League Against Cruel Sports during the last hunting season.
The figures, show the scale of the carnage fox hunts caused in just five months in England and Wales between the beginning of November and April – 621 cases of hunt havoc and 361 incidents of hunts being involved in suspected illegal hunting.
The hunt havoc included hunts trespassing on private land and railway lines; running amok on roads; chasing livestock and people’s pets; incidents involving the welfare of horses and hounds; badger setts being damaged to prevent foxes fleeing; people being intimidated and caused mental distress; and the chasing of other wildlife such as deer.
The suspected illegal hunting involved 315 cases of a hunt being seen chasing a fox.
Chris Luffingham, deputy CEO of the League Against Sports, said: “These figures show that fox hunts are out of control, still brutally chasing and killing animals and exhibiting a shocking range of anti-social behaviour that is blighting rural communities nearly 20 years after hunting with dogs was supposed to have been banned.