Trail hunting ban - would you hunt the "clean boot"?

[BootHunter]

Horsey people - with the talk of an upcoming ban on trail hunting, would you consider joining a clean boot hunt as an alternative?

YANBU - Yes
YANBU - No

IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRAIL HUNTING AND CLEAN BOOT HUNTING THEN GOOGLE IT!

I'm a horse owner but I do not hunt because all there is locally to me is "trail hunting" packs. However, if there was a legitimate bloodhound pack hunting human quarry then I absolutely would join, and I can think of several friends who would too.

I personally feel that this could be a great opportunity for the local hunts to evolve into something that more people want to take part in, and probably the only thing that will stop the whole industry from closing down altogether.

They will be shot sadly because they are have not been trained to live in home environments .

@EverestMiltonTheres no evidence that there's widespread killing of foxes at all. Certainly not deliberate. “Evidence” is a few occasions on film and that’s not the same as saying it’s a deliberate act to hunt a fox. Trail hunting is about riding over a pre agreed trail behind hounds on the trail. Foxes are everywhere and have multiplied like mad. They are everywhere. It would be difficult for the dogs to avoid one on occasions but it’s not a deliberate act of killing or a pre meditated one.

Where I used to live there was genuinely mock hunting. No hounds so no chance of catching anything, but one rider in a red sweater who was the "fox", a few in brown jumpers who were the "hounds" and then everyone else chasing behind.

I would never in a million years go hunting if there was a risk of catching anything, but this was such good fun. It was a lovely supportive hunt that did into days for novices etc.

What I don't understand is why the government isn't clamping down on fireworks too on animal welfare grounds. I imagine they cause a lot more distress to animals over the course of a year in terms of overall numbers than fox hunting.

The positive relationship you describe should be possible for foxhound trail hunting too. I think there’s a genuine issue of fear. I still remember, as a teenager babysitting two small children one weekend and walking them up to the woods behind the village. These were privately owned but a long-standing tradition allowed children to use them as much as they wished for building dens etc. A large group of black and khaki clad saboteurs appeared wielding clubs and demanded to know which way the horses had gone. We hadn’t seen any. They didn’t believe us. It was very frightening. These groups of people were also implicated in attempts to poison the dogs on another occasion. So just as there are some bad apples on the hunt side, there are bad apples on the other side too. Just this week there has been a story about a foxhound with young pups being kidnapped. It is very difficult to build trust when people come into your community from outside and behave like that. Monitoring needs to be done by people who are friendly.

Plenty of dachshunds too, and I doubt if many of them are used for hunting badgers.

There have been a string of prosecutions and more are in the pipeline. In some areas hunting foxes is an open secret among horse riders. We're out in the country, we see them do it. Some of us are even invited to join them from time to time.

And of course we have the infamous advice in the webinar, covertly recorded, to carry two phones. One to organise the hunt officially and hand to the police should it be requested. And the other to talk about the real hunting.

Like most people who support fox hunting, you like to ignore the fact that there are vast tracts of UK countryside that haven't been hunted with hounds in living memory, where fox control is largely and completely successfully done by shooting.

And also to skate over the fact that the Burns report said that shooting was equally humane, taken as a whole, to fox hunting. And on coming to that conclusion he did not even include the absolutely barbaric practice of cub hunting.

I have fox hunted, cub hunted (once, it is not something I would ever repeat), trail hunted, drag hunted and been out with blood hounds. And lived for several decades in non hunting open country with foxes controlled by gunmen.

Many foxhound trail packs are very secretive and closed ranks to anyone new. They do not publish their meet locations. This has two effects, one makes it very unwelcoming to new riders and they wonder why field numbers are falling, two quite rightly it causes a lot of suspicion on their activities requiring further investigation/monitoring. My experience is most sabs live in the same area as the hunts they monitor so they are not necessarily "outsiders". There are also plenty of arrogant/aggressive hunt staff out there who could also do with being friendly! In all of the history of humanity there have been good people, bad people and those in between. Foxhound trail packs could foster better relationships with monitors and the community but hunts are the ones being squeezed by the law so they need to be the ones to start brokering the peace deal and with that has to come with transparency and a full a commitment to drag/clean boot.

increasing numbers of people are volunteering to be chased across the countryside by baying bloodhounds

I'm voting YABU just because my initial reaction to reading the article is are you off your fucking head 😂

Does this ban include just the packs whose followers are on horses? Or does it include the packs where the followers are on foot and the hound are bassetts or beagles? Or the hunts in the Lake District where they hunt foxes but the followers are on foot?

Foxes are far cleverer than the hounds who hunt them - many years ago I witnessed one jump onto a stone wall (where it knew the scent wouldn't hold) walk along the top then sit down a few yards away in the sunshine and have a wash whilst hounds swarmed around where the scent stopped before running off in the wrong direction . Fox ambled along the wall a bit further before jumping down and trotting into a nearby wood. Similar stories told of foxes using running water to fool the hounds. Have also seen a hare being followed by a pack of hounds dive into a hedge and a fresh one jump out the other side which the hounds, of course, followed as the new scent was stronger..

The trouble is that you are telling them to give up trail hunting. It’s impossible for them to feel they are dealing with honest saboteurs when they have an agenda to close down legal activity as well as prevent illegal.

When I was growing up the protestors and saboteurs were not local. The protestors were bussed in. Many were poor or homeless people paid £10 and given a packed lunch to come and disrupt our Boxing Day meet, which was a village get together for everyone, not just the hunt. The ban on fox hunting meant we got our village back because there were no protestors the following year.

I'm as towny as they come, and I don't ride, but a trail hunting ban is just pointless, nasty and spiteful. Why do the Labour party think "class war" is justifiable?
They've already done enough damage to the countryside economy, and now they just want to inflict more.

OP you raise a good question, but having done all the ridden hunting you are discussing, there are serious problems with the antisocial nature of any form of hunting with a big group of followers.

I've personally been involved directly or by association with:

• blocking busy roads with horses while moving from one leg/draw to another
• unintentionally intimidating other users of public paths
• blocking country lanes with large vehicles
• decimating verges with inconsiderate parking
• filling pubs with over excited and often filthy followers at the end of a hunt so the locals can't get their usual quiet pint late on a Saturday afternoon
• sending grazing horses into a complete frenzy as the hunt passes, often causing injury
• leaving public paths unusable for walkers and cyclists due to churned up mud.
• followers in vehicles behaving icons to other road users.
• hounds running into roads endangering drivers.

This list is not exhaustive, there is more.

There are many people who would be pleased to see the end of any activities with a group of loose hounds and 50 - 150 horses at the same time.

Does this ban include just the packs whose followers are on horses? Or does it include the packs where the followers are on foot and the hound are bassetts or beagles? Or the hunts in the Lake District where they hunt foxes but the followers are on foot?

They were all banned with the original ban.

Edited as quoted the wrong poster!

It is an inefficient way to deal with the fox problem anyway. Much better ways to despatch them.

Probably what happens to them now when they stop being useful to the hunt - shot, starved or euthanased - hunts aren't kind to their dogs.

They came through a school playground locally when the children were out at lunch time. They terrified some of the children and broke the fence that bordered the fields. There was no apology and no paying for the fence to be repaired, just a 'well that's country ways!' attitude!

Last year dd hunted with a bloodhound pack although they disbanded when one of the hounds killed a farmers sheep. Now they ‘hunt’ without dogs which seems rather safer for everyone’s reputation 😅

Our local one is completely transparent. Meets are widely published over websites and open social media pages. Multiple people filming with go pros and head cams. Always encouraging new people. They use rural areas with express permission from the landowners with Nike of the issues app has listed

Which is absolutely no excuse for inflicting cruelty on any animal.
With hunting, a large part of the cruelty is actually chasing an increasingly frightened and exhausted fox with a pack of dogs. I say this as somebody who has grown up with horses and around hunting, but would never take part

My daughter goes out with our local bloodhound pack. They’re respectful, ride in private areas with permission. They do farm rides a lot as well. She’s never been trail hunting. I don’t bounce so well these days so it’s not for me.

To be fair, our local trail hunt seems to be fairly transparent, they publish their routes and meeting places, even the group that monitor (and film) them every time admit they’ve never seen them doing anything they shouldn’t. Neither DD or I have never been out with them though.

Anyone writing here that if they were a fox/deer they would rather be killed quickly by the hunt/hound has not witnessed a hunt.

There is no 'quickly'.

The hunt chases, in the case of deer, often for hours, the terrified creature before it is killed.

On Exmoor deer are still hunted, still chased by more than two dogs (often in relay) to keep the dogs fresh in order to pursue the deer for longer. Hours later the exhausted, wretched creature, now in an appalling state, is shot.

People dress up and ride out to do this three times a week. They blow horns, they have drinking rituals, they party.

It is fun for the people.
It is slow, horrific and cruel for the animal.

I completely agree with @Imdunfer's post at 9.26 today.

The hunt is a bloody nuisance if you live in the country and just want to go about your business.

In my local pub one of the huntsmen dropped a £50 note. Someone, quietly pushed a stool over it and, when the hunt left bought everyone in the pub a pint at the bastard's expense.

Not everyone in the countryside supports hunting.

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/somerset-hunts-causing-havoc-communities-7720325

I don't ride but I know two people who do and they've both posted on social media that they'd love to join a clean boot hunt. Neither of them would ever have joined a fox hunt and both of them have been disgusted by the behaviour of local trail hunts.