Disaster with Autism and Secondary School

[StressedSENmum]

DS is 11, currently looking at Secondary School options. He is very intelligent, loves learning and is currently above average in school assessments. He has a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD, and is starting to struggle with the demands of Year 6 (mainly with the work load and less down time). He does not have an EHCP, I’ve enquired repeatedly about whether he warrants one and been told he doesn’t come anywhere close to reaching the 12 hours a week threshold for extra support.

Our local Secondary School is 1,800 students, I feel this is too big for him and he will struggle with the transitions, teachers won’t know his needs, too many kids etc. His teachers also agree and think he needs a much smaller setting which can only be achieved at a private school. We can afford private school - just - but it will mean huge lifestyle changes for the next 5 years, zero savings, holidays etc. My husband thinks we need to give the massive secondary school a chance but I think it’s doomed for failure and will effect his self-esteem negatively.

It’s also worth mentioning that I work with autistic and neurodiverse teenagers and I see so many of them struggling at school, burning out and being home schooled or not having any education as a result. I also hear mostly negative stories about autistic teenagers in mainstream secondary schools, and even ones who’ve gone to private struggle (albeit less).

Has anyone got a positive story or any advice?

My AuDHD daughter thrived in a small private all girls school. I don’t think people understand that it’s sometimes just the noise and chaos of large schools, end of period bells etc Small class sizes were amazing for DD. She is now at a state 6th form college, it’s also small and focuses on a levels and a few technical BTECs etc

As a lone parent I felt the financial burden but school fees plan made it 12 payments rather than 3 large ones which I found way more doable.

We hoped for, and got, a place for DS in a autism base. We still had to go through the whole process and pick other schools as usual and I phoned every school in the area to ask them about reasonable adjustments and how they'd cope with DS needs.

Based on those discussions, I didn't put down our nearest secondary as I felt they were evasive about uniform adjustments.

If I were you I'd push for the EHCP as well/apply yourself if you can.

@StressedSENmumif you can afford the private school, go and look at it with DS and see how it feels.
May children have ASD and other issues. Both do mainstream, looking back I wish I had

1. home educated them from very early on this would have been my first choice looking back now but I just didn’t have the knowledge earlier and when it got to later it wasn’t an option due to lifestyle.
2. looked at private school options for them. second choice to get them somewhere more able to meet thier needs.

they have both done ‘ok’ but I feel the setting hasn’t helped. Neither have an EHCP or would qualify. Neither are academic, both are super creative wonderful humans.

i would explore other options if you can.

You can apply for an EHCP and it may fail, even on appeal. I did this and the EHCP appeal officer told the school off for not collecting any information and told them to get their act together. The school then put the EHCP through and it was all sorted 12 months later.

Apply, appeal and try again after the mandatory six month break.

My ds has autism and attends a large mainstream secondary school. The school were really supportive about his transition to secondary school and talked to us and him to make sure the right support was in place. The pastoral support has been really good since he got there as well. There have been a few issues but we have worked with the school to sort them out. I am not sure either the size of the school or whether it is private / state matters, it's how they support pupils. Your best bet is to meet the sencos at each and see how they will support your ds.

At our local high school, you do not need an EHCP to access additional support. School has recognised his hard it is to her a diagnosis and get an Assesment, so they treat “as if”. Young people can access AP, reduced timetables, quiet working spaces, classroom support, all that stuff, without the need for a formal diagnosis.

School have chosen to direct funding towards this, as well as “Trauma Informed Practice” training for staff. They also have specialist training around ND, Anxiety and EBSA.

This has been practice over the last 18 months - Exclusions are down to almost zero.

There are some great state schools out there.

There are! And sometimes discussions get quite reductive based on people's individual experiences. The meshing of the child's needs, what different schools provide and support with and parental circumstances are all totally different. So the lesson is, I think, go and look at, talk to and understand your local schools. Test out how they would work with a child like your DS. Be open to possibilities.

Someone on a local SEN parent support group told me I was abusive for sending DD to a mainstream school. Which was pretty rich given they'd never met her.

My son was diagnosed with Autism toward the end of y7 after a very rocky start of secondary school. He is a very high achiever in a selective school but struggles with social communication. He achieved sufficiently highly in the selection that he could have gone to one of the best state schools in the country but opted for a more diverse school (and a shorter commute!)

His school has a mixed reputation for SEN and the SENCO is spiky (and disapproves of private Autism assessment) but the rest of the SEN team and the pastoral team are amazing.

He doesn’t meet the threshold for an EHCP but has social skills coaching, a mentor, use of a laptop (due to dyspraxia), support plan overseen by the Ed Psych, access to the support hub at all times, and a designated SEN case worker. There’s a lot more support than I ever expected but I’ve had to be proactive in flagging issues and getting lots of staff on board.

visit the school, talk to the staff, don’t rely on primary school gossip as it’s often out of date and biased.

As a secondary teacher and parent of a child with ASD and an EHCP who attends specialist provision - YANBU.

If you don't have an EHCP already you are, unfortunately, too late to get a different placement than the local big school now. Despite what MN tells you (because they, quite rightly, quote the legislation), the reality is that it just doesn't happen.

Pay for the private school. Your DS will thank you for it, and you will save yourself years of trauma for all of you.

I haven't read the whole thread, but why assume his current teachers know what he won't cope with? Most primary teachers haven't set foot in a secondary since they went to school themselves. Visit the secondary school's SENDCO or head of inclusion and ask them. Also aren't you leaving this a bit late if he's moving on next September, since private schools may already be over subscribed? It seems silly to commit yourself to a private school you can barely afford for 5 years without finding out more re the mainstream one.

The school shouldn't be telling you things that are incorrect but schools also don't have time to put in EHCPs that will be turned down unless the parent is willing to appeal. LAs certainly act unlawfully but not all parents have the capacity or willingness to appeal, even with huge levels of school support. An EHCP takes hours and hours to prepare (the school EHCNA application for my county is much longer for schools than parents) and schools start to get a flavour of what level of need the LA write EHCPs for. The whole system is terrible in that it disadvantages children without parents willing and able to appeal.

I’ve been researching for over a year. The local mainstream school has a very mixed reputation for SEND, and realistically, having 1800 students means they can’t possibly help every SEND child to the extent they might require it. The headmaster was very honest with me and said that they focus on students with EHCPs and if there’s no funding it place, ‘there’s not much they can do.’

The private school is well known for SEND, half of the students there have a diagnosis of some sort of SEND. There were lots of obviously autistic students thriving at the open day.

The issue really comes down to money and my husband thinking that we should just give the mainstream local comp a go first which I thoroughly disagree with.

Financially we won’t be penny pinching but it will mean no holidays, no savings, no meals out etc. It will basically be at the sacrifice of the nice lifestyle we currently have.

Then Is say this is your best option.

Well, atleast you know your son is fine. Secondary can be brutal if you're different/nd. Mine (asd) refused to go for over a year because he couldn't cope year 7. Go for private.

Small school is definitely the way to go. However please be aware that if he is unlikely to need a SEN school, if he has an EHCP the local authority would be looking at state schools and only if state schools can't meet need would they look at independents.
My daughter does have an EHCP and we really felt that a local independent school would be a good fit, however once she had an EHCP we had to look at state schools first. We asked the independent school if we could bypass SENAT and just apply directly to them, but with an EHCP this wasn't possible.
My son (also has an EHCP) is currently applying for sixth forms and he has been turned down from one based on his EHCP. The school is highly academic as is he, but they have turned him down without seeing his predicted grades on the basis of some points in the EHCP they have misinterpreted. I wish we hadn't had an EHCP for him, as it has become a barrier.

On the other hand, they have both thrived in a small state secondary local to us. My daughter was given a space at a specialist setting, but we decided to give mainstream a try and she's doing really well (primary school thought she'd never cope at mainstream).

I really do think small is key, so if there are no small state options that an EHCP could support him getting into, I would hold off the EHCP and apply to the independent setting and self-fund. Once there, they could apply for an EHCP if needed, and the local authority would be much less likely to move him from somewhere he is settled.

My son has a EHCP... I've never heard of a 12 hours threshold!

I mean this kindly: by the sounds of the school from your update before this one, you will lose this lifestyle anyway, because your son will not cope and you will end up with one of you having to keep him home to HE.

Sometimes the sacrifice is actually less of one in the long run. Losing a job entirely would be much worse financially overall.

Have you not already applied for secondary? I would definitely apply for an EHCNA. Our school didn’t think our Year 6 needed an EHCP and laughed at the prospect. We got an EHCP after I applied for a needs assessment. (Wanted to make sure it was done properly after getting my fingers burned.) Minimal hassle. I appreciate we were very lucky but as others have said, your school is not giving you accurate information - our SENCO was clearly trying to kick it down the line to make it someone else’s problem.

Apologies if I’ve missed it but what does your DS think about secondary? How is he feeling? I would certainly incline towards trying the bigger school first before committing to private.

Yes I’ve applied to the local mainstream school, I don’t feel as though I want to accept a place there though.

Do you have any other children? That would be a consideration for me as well. Any needs, interests or talents that might need catering for that you might not be able to if you went private.

One of the reasons we pushed so hard for the EHCP before we started secondary was as a bit of an insurance policy in case it did all go wrong- we could trigger an emergency review and a change of placement.

You could do a middle ground- start the EHCP process, but also apply and work with the state school on adjustments, but have a very low threshold for pulling him out if needed (as you have resources). In the meantime the EHCP will be in train, and if he can't thrive in the state school then you can put forward the other school as an option (as the Needs assessment would then have lots of evidence the state school is not a suitable placement).

I’ve enquired repeatedly about whether he warrants one and been told he doesn’t come anywhere close to reaching the 12 hours a week threshold for extra support.

What made up illegal nonsense is this?!

Get that EHCNA in - quickly - before the upcoming White Paper changes..!

Is it likely a child will get an EHCP if the school doesn’t support the application?

My son really struggled at Primary in year 6. He is now in year 11, in a 10 form entry school with 1500 pupils and is thriving.

My advice to you is once he is offered a place, talk with the SEN team at the school. We also had no EHCP but they put a number of measures in place, like leaving the class 5 minutes earlier to walk through school when it’s quieter, a passport on the register with his needs. He was also allowed in an additional learning space for SEN children at break and lunch, but that was a disaster as he would argue and get into trouble! Other autistic children made him unhappy!

In year 10 school applied for exam access arrangements, and he has a smaller exam space and can use a word processor.

Overall, our son has thrived so much more than his primary teachers ever gave him credit. We have had some bumps but all parents do, SEN or not. We also medicated the adhd from year 8, it took a year and 3 types of medication to find the perfect one, much of the autistic traits seem to fade too and he’s now much calmer, and happier.

I don’t believe ds would be doing any better in a private school. Once he was streamed for gcse options, he was in top sets with academic children who were more on his wavelength.

Good luck! We all fret at the transition but being taught by different subject experts who are passionate and moving around the school has been wonderful for DS.

I agree with your DH. I teach in a massive secondary school, and in lots of ways it's good for kids with ASD. There are lots and lots of other students with ASD, so it's easier to find their tribe. Teachers are used to students with ASD, as they've taught lots. My DS with ASD attended my school and is now studying for a Maths degree at Imperial College. He found aspects of secondary school really challenging, especially in KS3 but I believe this would have been true anywhere. He is now more able to manage in the world, having not been sheltered from the world.