Disaster with Autism and Secondary School

[StressedSENmum]

DS is 11, currently looking at Secondary School options. He is very intelligent, loves learning and is currently above average in school assessments. He has a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD, and is starting to struggle with the demands of Year 6 (mainly with the work load and less down time). He does not have an EHCP, I’ve enquired repeatedly about whether he warrants one and been told he doesn’t come anywhere close to reaching the 12 hours a week threshold for extra support.

Our local Secondary School is 1,800 students, I feel this is too big for him and he will struggle with the transitions, teachers won’t know his needs, too many kids etc. His teachers also agree and think he needs a much smaller setting which can only be achieved at a private school. We can afford private school - just - but it will mean huge lifestyle changes for the next 5 years, zero savings, holidays etc. My husband thinks we need to give the massive secondary school a chance but I think it’s doomed for failure and will effect his self-esteem negatively.

It’s also worth mentioning that I work with autistic and neurodiverse teenagers and I see so many of them struggling at school, burning out and being home schooled or not having any education as a result. I also hear mostly negative stories about autistic teenagers in mainstream secondary schools, and even ones who’ve gone to private struggle (albeit less).

Has anyone got a positive story or any advice?

We have just successfully got an EHCP for my daughter, despite the school and SENCo being unsupported/obstructive. Definitely apply for a needs assessment, you don't need the school to do it for you.

Please please send him to the supportive environment, secondary school destroyed me, but back in the eighties as a female I was just thought of as difficult and weird, I now know differently, I've struggled massively all my life, wondering why I can't read people, masking then burning out, if he enters an environment that's supportive and builds his self esteem it will massively contribute to his wellbeing later on in life.

It would be nice if the local authority could chip in for the safe, accessible education they were refusing to provide me child but sadly not. Too ideologically opposed to an education that needs my child’s needs, ploughing on with the inclusion of violent, traumatised children in mainstream instead. Wonderful!

You can apply for an EHCP yourself as a parent in my LA aa well as the special schools, we have several schools with autism Hubs within mainstream schools, for those children who are more academically able but struggle in mainstream due to their autism but the children who attend do have an EHCP.

Having worked in a large secondary my opinion is if you can afford private do it 1000x over. From even a core subject teachers perspective I could easily be teaching 400+ students and knowing all of their needs inside out was near impossible (even if it was technically written down on seating plans etc). Even the students with EHCPs are unlikely to see any personal benefit from this funding in a school this size it all gets absorbed into the SEND budget e.g. I'd have bottom set classes with 6 students with an EHCP and no TA, a visually impaired student I taught supposedly had over £20k as part of their package and I only had a TA in half of their lessons, no extra time to modify resources to font size 40. It really is dire out there in some schools and things will get missed. This was a school that actually had comparatively good progress scores for SEND students and I wouldn't want it for my child.

As a parent, ex teacher and sibling of an autistic person who had a terrible time in school I know I'd be going private in this situation if I could, especially if he's bright and you know he could excell with the correct support. 5 years of a limited lifestyle is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Sadly, some schools incorrectly tell parents their DC doesn’t need or won’t get an EHCP. You don’t need the school to make the request or support an EHCNA request. You can make the request yourself. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. Appeal if refused. There is no 12 hour threshold. Another myth perpetuated by LAs and some schools.

The first test to look at is that for an EHCNA. It is relatively low - a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. When considering whether to assess and issue an EHCP, the LA should consider the upcoming transition. If DS is struggling in Y6, that is only likely to increase as DS moves through secondary.

However, you may not have an EHCP by September. Have you spoken to the SENCO at the school you are likely to be offered via the normal admission process? Is there a smaller state school you feel could meet needs that you could appeal for?

Is there any other schools nearby?
also as others have said you can apply for an EHCP needs assessment as a parent. Many autistic children are academically capable, but socially unable to cope in mainstream schools and end up going to an alternative. Apply and see what happens as the worse outcome is that they say no (though be warned they’ll likely try to refuse it at every stage). I have countless times been told my child would not qualify for an EHCP - which was wrong and just delayed the process of moving to a specialist school by which point they hated everything to do with school as they were so overwhelmed by mainstream.

Look at pastoral care - this is what makes the difference for children with SEND. My ASD DD is at a large secondary school but is happy and doing well, thanks to a school ethos where every student matters and they will do what they can to support. Ask about examples of reasonable adjustments for similar kids - actual things they have in place, not theoretical plans that never happen! Ask what they would do for specific students eg uniform adjustments, group work in drama etc, attendance policies, homework, negative behaviour. And look at any other schools you can reasonably travel to - if nothing else, if gives you a comparison. You can also look on the school websites to see what they are emailing home about and what they celebrate in their newsletters - most secondary schools publish letters home online. Don't take much notice of local social media - irate parents tend to be the loudest and it is hard to differentiate between legitimate concerns and parents who like to moan about everything!

I think it really depends on how he is with sensory issues. My DS really struggled with the noise and chaos of his secondary school and we finally withdrew him in Year 10 - I wish we'd done it by Year 8 really. The other thing that large secondary schools can't provide is a sense of reliable continuity. Not all autists are the same, obviously, but again that's something my son talked about through school, 'I go to school, and I never know what's going to happen that day'. I think that sense of uncertainty really got in the way of his learning.

I think in retrospect if you're in a position to pay for a private school with smaller numbers and experience in SEN, I'd go for that. I completely understand your DH's POV however, if you go for it, he might thrive there but be prepared to pull the plug and move if he doesn't. I would also make clear to the secondary school that you have a professional understanding and competency of ASD issues and young people, it will give them an early doors warning that gaslighting you is not an option.

Apologies if this is me projecting a bit - wishing you and your family all the best with the transition!

Your Senco is either a liar or an idiot. Utter nonsense about “thresholds”.

Read the IPSEA site as much as you can, become expert in this and as previously opined, don’t even try him at all at a huge mainstream.

mRegardless of where you send them, it would be helpful to consider whether the school can make any necessary adjustments when it comes to uniform. There are certain things that my child cannot wear do to sensory issues. Also having the ability to avoid very noisy situations (eg assembly) was useful.

It depends on the school. My DD with ASC just stated at an all girls state school and they have been brilliant with her, they are alert to the risk of burnout and have made a lot of effort, even though she has the formal diagnosis but not the EHCP. If you speak to them about it maybe they can set out for you what their plan would be?

It depends on the child and the school. I was really worried about the transition for my AuDHD DS but he’s doing great in a mainstream school.
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How are the only options the 1800 capacity school, or private? Are you not near a single other state school? If you got an ehcp, are there any state special schools that would be suitable? If you can only just afford private, the risk is that at some point you can't afford it any more. I can understand why your husband is concerned about family finances.

One of my kids was turned down for the ehcp assessment, but we got it on appeal. He is now in a state special school and doing infinitely better.

We live rurally so the only school we are in the catchment for is the 1800 capacity school. Everyone who has worked with DS has said a special school would not be suitable, but that the large capacity school is also not suitable. He essentially ‘needs’ the private school, according to teachers.

To get funding for a private school an EHCP is needed - there are many children in independent schools funded by the LA this way.

I’m in a similar situation except no means to cover private so we are between a Sen school and a mainstream. I would 💯 go private. Why wait to see if your boy hits rock bottom before you ensure his needs are met?

Speak with the SEND team at the secondary schools you are interested in.

You need to know how they would support your child. What interventions they have etc.

My autistic child attends a large quite rough secondary. I was very worried about it before he started, but the SEND team there are amazing. He finishes lessons 5 minutes early so corridors are empty, he has a pass to go to pastoral in lessons if overwhelmed, he has regular catch ups with the pastoral team, he can go somewhere quieter at lunch . A big school sometimes has more facilities and flexibility than a small school. Talk to the senco at the secondary school and see if how they can support him.

Sounds like your DS could
so with attending to a school with fewer pupils and smaller class sizes, so probably private.
Definitely get the EHCP and a good advocate on board to help you.

Hi! I think the senco at the primary is being super lazy in not doing the EHCP application and one is definitely needed, there is no “12 hour” threshold either so they’re either lying or misinformed. Having an EHCP is the best way to get your child what he needs for secondary education, you can even name the private school if you like, if you think his needs can be met there and then the local authority have to consider if that’s the right place for him.

Apply as a parent - it’s relatively straightforward, the process takes a while, maybe a year so I would be keeping him on that large secondary’s register even if you never intend for him to attend, because the second you deregister from mainstream no one has any reason to help you as it’s not hurting attendance figures.

If your DS is 11 you will already have looked round secondary schools and given your preferences surely (are you UK based)?
Have you spoken with the sendco? Seen what provisions there are? DS’s school is huge, but the sen dept is a bit separate from the main school; some of the students do forest school every morning before joining lessons.

You wanted positive stories- DD started at a mainstream secondary c. 1200 students (8 form entry, girls' comp) this year and is loving it. She is autistic and dyspraxic, with an EHCP (but this is our nearest school anyway). She's very 'obviously' autistic but also quite bright (got top banding in a couple of her sats) making none of the specials near us an option, and private not an option financially. Although she has an EHCP, lots of the provisions would fall into reasonable adjustments with the exception of one.

She now hardly wears her noise cancellers because the behaviour is much better and she's not trapped in one small room all day.They have a send lunch club, lots of options for things like library time, and there is a nurture hub for kids who need it. All her RAs like early lunch and time out passes are honoured. More TAs generally, ELSA provision, loads of different clubs. She's had 100% attendance this year.

I think the inclusiveness of schools can be very different - I have another young relative with ASD who was relentlessly bullied and ended up with EBSA (now in line for good a levels though). But that is in an area of the country which is not very diverse in lots of different ways, and I've got a theory that schools in big cities have lots of different 'types' of kids anyway which helps. We know lots of children doing well in MS so it's certainly not the no-no that some purport. Interestingly some of the 'rougher' schools in our area also have better SEND provision - have a look at school data and EHCP numbers which will give you some indication of how inclusive they are.

Sorry OP I don't have a positive story, we were in a similar situation and couldn't afford private. We sent AuDHD DC to the mainstream secondary and did not apply for an EHCP because every time I asked I was told they wouldn't get one.

Things have gradually gone downhill. I now have a Y10 who is not in school at all, has no EHCP, and is recovering from huge stress and anxiety due to masking and pushing themself to go in for years.

We have applied for the ECHP now but been turned down for the needs assessment and are having to appeal that. There is about a year's wait for a tribunal just to get them to agree to do the assessment.

I really regret not applying for an ECHP as soon as they started struggling, even if it took years of tribunals and appeals, because we would have had something in place now.

Being stuck in the mainstream secondary has been traumatic and pushed my child to breaking point. Even when you are in crisis it is hard to get help, and a very slow and frustrating process.

With an ehcp you can name your parental preference of school. Is there a school near enough, but not in catchment, that you think would be suitable? The special school my ds is in follows the national curriculum, so not for severe disabilities and life skills. I would do your own research, not just rely on the teachers.

I am not trying to talk you out of private by the way! Just seeing if there are other options to save you money.