Page 4 | Daughter, gender queer, new name, brain dump

Allaboutthechild · 2025-12-15T23:34:42+00:00

First off - my daughter is fine with "she/her". 15yr old daughter. I wrote a load of text but in summary, she said she was trans 2 years ago, now she is non-binary/gender query apparently. I've been "that's nice dear"-ing for years and biting my tongue, reassuring her that I love her and support her etc. Whilst screaming in my head. She had friends who supported her when she said she was trans but they dont believe in non-binary (!?) so she is feeling unsupported. I said something this morning about trousers and she took it completely the wrong way. And it all came tumbling out about the hard time she's having. She has always hated her (perfectly normal) name. She changed school in September. At her previous one she went by a made up name for 3 years. When she started at this school she went by her real name but now wants to change it. She is putting more thought into it this time. I'd rather she didn't change it. Not least because it will reinforce this gender stuff. But it's her name so it's her decision. Because of her age, I think it needs to be a serious decision this time. I also think it might stick. She has asked me to help her chose a name (which I will admit was really flattering). She wanted a very masculine name so I suggested maybe a gender neutral name or a female name that could be shortened to a male name. She liked this idea. So I've bought her a "gender neutral" baby name book for Christmas. My husband (her Dad) doesnt approve. He thinks I'm interfering and trying to influence her and encouraging it. He has no opinion on the trans debate but thinks I'm a bigot and refuses to talk about it. My daughter isnt stupid and will know I'm not completely on board with the gender stuff. But hopefully she does know I love her and I think helping her with a name will show her I support her. Besides, she writes and is always asking for name ideas so if nothing else the book will help with that. I dont think that giving her a name book is a bad thing or will make her think she's a boy more than she already does? She's very private so I also think this might be a way of helping her to open up?

Poppingby · 17/12/2025 13:31

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 11:43

Not so far, but I'm pretty sure everyone has seen the hundreds of threads on here about trans women using the ladies loos...

Just sharing my views. Personally, as a feminist I don't feel the existence of trans women takes away from my safety, my rights, my freedoms. Trans women are just people trying to exist.

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You're saying there's 'hate and anger at the trans community' and yes there is on mumsnet but not on this thread. I deliberately avoid entering into debate on the hateful ones. I don't think labelling a gender critical stance as hateful is useful when you are talking about women wanting to talk about the gender systems that have repressed them bringing up girls who now are being repressed by the same system by a different name.

If someone wants to live as the opposite 'gender' more power to them. People should live as they want. I don't think there's something wrong with you that needs to be changed if you don't fit neatly into what is considered feminine or masculine or try to fit yourself into one box or the other. Seeing your daughter wrangling with this is so difficult when what is at fault is the SYSTEM OF GENDER, not how your daughter (or anyone else) feels or wants to live.

Insisting that gender defines you is yet another way of obscuring real sex-based suffering that happens to women differently at different stages of their lives based on both biology (eg post natal or menopause care) and the social systems (eg 'be kind') that have conditioned us.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 13:44

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 11:43

Not so far, but I'm pretty sure everyone has seen the hundreds of threads on here about trans women using the ladies loos...

Just sharing my views. Personally, as a feminist I don't feel the existence of trans women takes away from my safety, my rights, my freedoms. Trans women are just people trying to exist.

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You appear to misunderstand the arguments on here.

No one has said that all trans women are predators and that is the reason why women should have single sex spaces.

What people are pointing out is that single sex spaces exist because male people pose a threat to women as a sex class. There is nothing about a male who identifies as a trans woman that makes him less of a risk than any other male.

We are not therefore excluding a trans woman because he is trans but we are excluding him because he is male.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 13:47

NumbersGuy · 17/12/2025 06:04

Honestly I have to say, when it comes to "it's their body, their choice," when anyone feels that they identify as another gender gets completely thrown out the window to be never uttered. Tattoos, piercings, other body modifications, the style of dress, even abortion, it's always been "their body, their choice." However if it makes that person happy to dress differently, be addressed differently, etc. then TERFs are clutching their pearls because it doesn't fit the mold with what they're willing to accept. Christine Jorgensen was the first American to undergo MTF surgery in 1951, was an army soldier and then went on to become a well respected popular actress and singer after her transition. Nearly 75 years ago. Yet people think this is an issue that suddenly just popped up in the last five years or so. While underage, nothing can be done without a parent's consent, so all of this spewing of "they're going to do all of these major body modifications" is not going to happen from a medical standpoint. Finally, the gay community only encourages people to be happy with themselves to avoid hating themselves, with nearly 50% of trans youth attempting suicide in the UK due to discrimination. Who would want to pursue this kind of life with those stats? And no, there's not a recruitment process to push someone in one direction or another in the community - that's the job for politicians, churches, and cults that task themselves with increasing their numbers. People cannot actually believe, with a straight face unless they are just totally out-of-touch, that again, this is a life chosen by choice instead of just simply living a lie to be accepted by everyone. OP, if you have questions or just someone to talk to, below is a link to consider contacting. Best of luck to you and your family.

SupportLine

with nearly 50% of trans youth attempting suicide in the UK due to discrimination. Who would want to pursue this kind of life with those stats?

Where is your evidence to support this claim?

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 13:49

Allaboutthechild · 17/12/2025 09:16

Rant ahead.

The issue is that she was surrounded by people who think LGBT+ is a fashionable choice. If you didnt have a little rainbow flag in the required colours then you didn't have any value.

They also (ironically) had very standard gender stereotypes. Gender is a stereotype. If you're saying that gender is more than body parts, then you get into a definition of male/female and what, if not clichéd stereotypes, is that?

I'm female because I have the required body parts. How I live my life does not make me female. I am more than a list of things women traditionally do/are or aren't.

This is how you end up with women being under-represented in STEM or men being under-represented in care. They are stereotypically gender-ed jobs. Women in STEM are can be seen in negative terms and men working in care can be seen as dangerous.

I said above that I couldnt give a damn if a man wears a dress, calls himself Jane and works in a traditionally female industry like childcare. It doesn't make him a woman. If he says he is trans, it just makes him a man who believes in gender stereotypes.

We are better than that.

My daughter has female body parts. She is female. What she wears and does, does not make her a man. It's extremely harmful to say otherwise.

She likes science, why cant she be a woman who likes science and wear's "men's" trousers? Why is it being made deeper than that? Why is she being told that a women isn't good enough to work in science?

This summer I went into Primark to buy a summer hat for a baby. I asked a shop assistant where they were. He asked "boys or girls?". It's a frigging hat! In another shop stickers, yes stickers, were split into boys and girls. It's absolutely ludicrous!

The book "Bedtime Stories for Adventorous Girls" (or whatever it is) had a trans person in it. They said he knew he was a girl because "he liked pink and sparkly things". Really? Is that what it comes down to?

Are we really, in 21st century reducing people in this way?

She can look/wear/work etc however she wants. I will raise her up and do everything fucking thing I can to help her and I have and will continue to fight for her. I will not however say she is male because she likes chunky trainers and short hair. She deserves better.

OP my daughter is similar to yours and I share your views.

Have you shown your DH this post, because I'd challenge him to read this and still maintain that your views are bigoted.

The REAL bigots are the people who say that girls must act and behave in a feminine enough way or they are not really girls.

notnorman · 17/12/2025 14:03

damemaggiescurledupperlip · 16/12/2025 08:59

She’s desperate to reinvent herself. Is she generally happy? Have friends?

because if she thinks that changing her name will
magically make everything in her life ok, she’s in for more trouble - because it won’t, and then she’ll be under pressure to go ‘ just one more step’ to let the ‘magic’ begin. And it still won’t, but who knows what else she’ll do to her body in the meantime, thinking the solution lies that way ?

could you get her some counselling?

I was going to say this too x

Ghostmartin · 17/12/2025 14:09

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 13:47

with nearly 50% of trans youth attempting suicide in the UK due to discrimination. Who would want to pursue this kind of life with those stats?

Where is your evidence to support this claim?

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Don't hold your breath!
I'd ignore anything this bloke says. He seems to visit MN just to dish out his patronising 'advice' to women here.

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 14:12

Poppingby · 17/12/2025 13:31

You're saying there's 'hate and anger at the trans community' and yes there is on mumsnet but not on this thread. I deliberately avoid entering into debate on the hateful ones. I don't think labelling a gender critical stance as hateful is useful when you are talking about women wanting to talk about the gender systems that have repressed them bringing up girls who now are being repressed by the same system by a different name.

If someone wants to live as the opposite 'gender' more power to them. People should live as they want. I don't think there's something wrong with you that needs to be changed if you don't fit neatly into what is considered feminine or masculine or try to fit yourself into one box or the other. Seeing your daughter wrangling with this is so difficult when what is at fault is the SYSTEM OF GENDER, not how your daughter (or anyone else) feels or wants to live.

Insisting that gender defines you is yet another way of obscuring real sex-based suffering that happens to women differently at different stages of their lives based on both biology (eg post natal or menopause care) and the social systems (eg 'be kind') that have conditioned us.

Show quote history

If you read my original reply to OP, you'll see I never called her hateful or said there was hate specifically on this thread. I just basically said I'd probably be ripped to shreds by the Mumsnet TERFs for thinking trans people deserve rights. I'm not sure what you're arguing with me for, you're kind of just proving my point.

But if we're gonna go there, then yes, I think she when you hold views that essentially invalidate the lived realities of an entire community, that is hateful. Trans rights don't take away from cis women's rights, both groups deserve to feel seen and safe, it shouldn't be either/or.

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 14:30

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 13:44

You appear to misunderstand the arguments on here.

No one has said that all trans women are predators and that is the reason why women should have single sex spaces.

What people are pointing out is that single sex spaces exist because male people pose a threat to women as a sex class. There is nothing about a male who identifies as a trans woman that makes him less of a risk than any other male.

We are not therefore excluding a trans woman because he is trans but we are excluding him because he is male.

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I'm not misunderstanding anything, you're crystal clear. What I'm doing is disagreeing.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 14:32

Trans rights don't take away from cis women's rights, both groups deserve to feel seen and safe, it shouldn't be either/or.

Which rights are you talking about here @superbakedpotato ? If you mean that you believe that male people who identify as trans should have the right to enter single sex spaces for female people then of course this is either/ or. If you give male trans people those additional privileges you remove single sex spaces for all women.

I don't think you have the right to do that or to consent to that on behalf of all women.

It is not hateful for women to want single sex spaces at all. What is hateful is to remove those rights for women who want or need them in favour of a subset of male people.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 14:35

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 14:30

I'm not misunderstanding anything, you're crystal clear. What I'm doing is disagreeing.

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And that's absolutely fine. The world would be a boring place if we all agreed with each other on everything.

I do object to you calling views that safeguard female people hateful though, or to any notion that you have the ability to consent to the removal of single sex spaces because you believe that trans women should have privileges.

ProfessorRizz · 17/12/2025 17:03

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 10:23

I think it's really nice that although you don't really understand, you're trying hard to be supportive. I think it says a lot about you as a mum that you're willing to put aside your own feelings on the topic, and love and support your daughter regardless of whether it makes sense to you. Well done OP.

Mumsnet is heavy TERF territory, so I'll probably be unpopular for saying it, but I don't understand a lot of the hate and anger at the trans community. When you consider that - like in this case - it could be your own child who's feeling lost and uncomfortable in their own body, confused about their identity, and unhappy, how can you be angry? If your child says they want to identify as a flying zebra print mongoose, as long as its safe and legal, as a mum, you support whatever makes them happy. Sometimes that involves a little bit of tongue biting, but ultimately I believe everyone should be allowed to identify and present themselves in whatever way feels right to them, and it's not for the rest of us to judge.

Listen to what you yourself said:

’lost and uncomfortable in their own body…confused about their identity…unhappy’.

Surely the is the definition of a teenager, not a trans person?

Hollowvoice · 17/12/2025 17:08

@Allaboutthechild
I hear you, this is a hard journey.
My eldest DC has had a journey over the last year through non binary, they/them pronouns then pronouns which didn't match their birth name and now we have a new name with pronouns which are different to those at birth and identifying as gender fluid

I'm grateful we've been involved in the journey, that we are a safe space. Since DC has felt more able to express themselves in this way other mental health problems have lessened. Above all DC needs to know we are on their side and will support them whatever

Soontobe60 · 17/12/2025 17:52

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 13:47

with nearly 50% of trans youth attempting suicide in the UK due to discrimination. Who would want to pursue this kind of life with those stats?

Where is your evidence to support this claim?

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There isn’t any.

Soontobe60 · 17/12/2025 17:54

Ollldy78 · 17/12/2025 02:44

I absolutely loathe these threads .. i always hope that there will be some responses from people who have some experience of knowing trans people - there is never any evidence of that. All of the opinions here appear to be just that, formed in a vacuum.

I have no idea what OP’s child is feeling, and maybe all you keyboard warriors are absolutely correct, this kid was influenced by SM / the press / peers / the left / Voldemort.
Or maybe OP’s child cares about OP’s feelings and worries about disclosing something incredibly significant to them to an unsympathetic audience. Maybe OP’s “gender critical” (euphemism used ironically) views have left this 15 year old hiding their feelings from one of the most important people in their universe.. so they’ve repositioned from trans to gender queer, but wanting a masc name.. which still isn’t enough of a compromise..
Like me, all of the MN experts posting their opinions here also have no idea what OP’s child is feeling, but you know who might? OP’s husband, who you are all shouting down, but it’s actually in situ. His opinion may have some merit.
I would hope that if I were in this 15 year old’s position, I would get more than the “sure sure”s and judgemental discouragement - something along the lines of my happiness being paramount, rather than concern for society’s opinions being prioritised. I think that a book of names is really not OP taking things too far.
I also feel that unless you have experience of this subject, your opinion is as relevant as Andrew Tate’s take on equal pay.

All that being said, none in the history of humankind has managed to change sex. Lying to distressed children is appalling.

blankcanvas3 · 17/12/2025 17:56

Soontobe60 · 17/12/2025 17:52

There isn’t any.

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https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/27/half-of-trans-pupils-in-the-uk-tried-to-take-their-own-lives-survey-finds

Wasnt hard to find? Or are you too busy spouting transphobic rhetorics to google?

Almost half of trans pupils in UK have attempted suicide, survey finds

Stonewall survey shows eight out of 10 trans young people bullied at school or college have self-harmed, despite instances of LGBT bullying decreasing

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/27/half-of-trans-pupils-in-the-uk-tried-to-take-their-own-lives-survey-finds

lifeturnsonadime · 17/12/2025 18:03

blankcanvas3 · 17/12/2025 17:56

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/27/half-of-trans-pupils-in-the-uk-tried-to-take-their-own-lives-survey-finds

Wasnt hard to find? Or are you too busy spouting transphobic rhetorics to google?

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That is not evidence of any sort. It is from Stonewall who were biased and trying to change laws in the UK and is from 2017.

This is far more reliable.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust-independent-report

Summary Conclusions :

The data do not support the claim that there has been a large rise in suicide in young gender dysphoria patients at the Tavistock.
The way that this issue has been discussed on social media has been insensitive, distressing and dangerous, and goes against guidance on safe reporting of suicide.
The claims that have been placed in the public domain do not meet basic standards for statistical evidence.
There is a need to move away from the perception that puberty-blocking drugs are the main marker of non-judgemental acceptance in this area of health care.
We need to ensure high quality data in which everyone has confidence, as the basis of improved safety for this at risk group of young people.

Review of suicides and gender dysphoria at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust: independent report

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust-independent-report

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 19:37

ProfessorRizz · 17/12/2025 17:03

Listen to what you yourself said:

’lost and uncomfortable in their own body…confused about their identity…unhappy’.

Surely the is the definition of a teenager, not a trans person?

Show quote history

What's your point? Mine is that if my child is upset and tells me she feels that she isn't a girl, and that me calling her by another name would make her feel more comfortable in herself, then I'd do it. It's almost immaterial whether shes actually trans or if it's just a teenage phase she'll grow out of. All that matters is that she feels happy, safe, comfortable, and knows I support her no matter what.

We're talking about a name, not surgery, it's a very small change that could make a big difference to how the kid feels.

plantcomplex · 17/12/2025 19:45

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 19:37

What's your point? Mine is that if my child is upset and tells me she feels that she isn't a girl, and that me calling her by another name would make her feel more comfortable in herself, then I'd do it. It's almost immaterial whether shes actually trans or if it's just a teenage phase she'll grow out of. All that matters is that she feels happy, safe, comfortable, and knows I support her no matter what.

We're talking about a name, not surgery, it's a very small change that could make a big difference to how the kid feels.

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if my child is upset and tells me she feels that she isn't a girl

Well, no, we're not just talking about a name then, are we. If your child is so confused that they think humans can be born in the wrong body or change sex then there are valid reasons to be concerned and to do more than just agree.

As parents, our duty is to act in the best interests of our child especially when the child cannot recognise what those are - and that is very different to passively going along with whatever they say. Children are not miniature adults, which is why paediatric medicine is a separate specialty.

If your underweight daughter was upset and told you she felt she was obese, would you simply affirm that?

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 20:24

plantcomplex · 17/12/2025 19:45

if my child is upset and tells me she feels that she isn't a girl

Well, no, we're not just talking about a name then, are we. If your child is so confused that they think humans can be born in the wrong body or change sex then there are valid reasons to be concerned and to do more than just agree.

As parents, our duty is to act in the best interests of our child especially when the child cannot recognise what those are - and that is very different to passively going along with whatever they say. Children are not miniature adults, which is why paediatric medicine is a separate specialty.

If your underweight daughter was upset and told you she felt she was obese, would you simply affirm that?

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The OPs child wants to change their name, so yes it's about a name. If my little girl wants to go by Barry henceforth, who gives a fuck, I love her whoever she is.

But what you seem to be implying there is that you think people identifying as anything other than their biological sex are mentally ill, if you're comparing your child coming out to them having an eating disorder. If that's the case, there's literally no point in arguing further, because I find that pretty gross.

Soontobe60 · 17/12/2025 20:55

superbakedpotato · 17/12/2025 20:24

The OPs child wants to change their name, so yes it's about a name. If my little girl wants to go by Barry henceforth, who gives a fuck, I love her whoever she is.

But what you seem to be implying there is that you think people identifying as anything other than their biological sex are mentally ill, if you're comparing your child coming out to them having an eating disorder. If that's the case, there's literally no point in arguing further, because I find that pretty gross.

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What is it exactly that you find gross? That someone thinks people who are claiming to be a different sex may have a mental illness? What about people who claim to hear voices? Or claim to be a cat? Or myriad other claims that are impossible to have?