Daughter, gender queer, new name, brain dump

[Allaboutthechild]

First off - my daughter is fine with "she/her".

15yr old daughter.

I wrote a load of text but in summary, she said she was trans 2 years ago, now she is non-binary/gender query apparently. I've been "that's nice dear"-ing for years and biting my tongue, reassuring her that I love her and support her etc. Whilst screaming in my head.

She had friends who supported her when she said she was trans but they dont believe in non-binary (!?) so she is feeling unsupported. I said something this morning about trousers and she took it completely the wrong way. And it all came tumbling out about the hard time she's having.

She has always hated her (perfectly normal) name. She changed school in September. At her previous one she went by a made up name for 3 years. When she started at this school she went by her real name but now wants to change it. She is putting more thought into it this time. I'd rather she didn't change it. Not least because it will reinforce this gender stuff. But it's her name so it's her decision. Because of her age, I think it needs to be a serious decision this time. I also think it might stick.

She has asked me to help her chose a name (which I will admit was really flattering). She wanted a very masculine name so I suggested maybe a gender neutral name or a female name that could be shortened to a male name. She liked this idea.

So I've bought her a "gender neutral" baby name book for Christmas. My husband (her Dad) doesnt approve. He thinks I'm interfering and trying to influence her and encouraging it.

He has no opinion on the trans debate but thinks I'm a bigot and refuses to talk about it.

My daughter isnt stupid and will know I'm not completely on board with the gender stuff. But hopefully she does know I love her and I think helping her with a name will show her I support her.

Besides, she writes and is always asking for name ideas so if nothing else the book will help with that.

I dont think that giving her a name book is a bad thing or will make her think she's a boy more than she already does?

She's very private so I also think this might be a way of helping her to open up?

I absolutely loathe these threads .. i always hope that there will be some responses from people who have some experience of knowing trans people,

I absolutely loathe these threads .. i always hope that there will be some responses from people who have some experience of knowing trans people - there is never any evidence of that. All of the opinions here appear to be just that, formed in a vacuum.

I have no idea what OP’s child is feeling, and maybe all you keyboard warriors are absolutely correct, this kid was influenced by SM / the press / peers / the left / Voldemort.
Or maybe OP’s child cares about OP’s feelings and worries about disclosing something incredibly significant to them to an unsympathetic audience. Maybe OP’s “gender critical” (euphemism used ironically) views have left this 15 year old hiding their feelings from one of the most important people in their universe.. so they’ve repositioned from trans to gender queer, but wanting a masc name.. which still isn’t enough of a compromise..
Like me, all of the MN experts posting their opinions here also have no idea what OP’s child is feeling, but you know who might? OP’s husband, who you are all shouting down, but it’s actually in situ. His opinion may have some merit.
I would hope that if I were in this 15 year old’s position, I would get more than the “sure sure”s and judgemental discouragement - something along the lines of my happiness being paramount, rather than concern for society’s opinions being prioritised. I think that a book of names is really not OP taking things too far.
I also feel that unless you have experience of this subject, your opinion is as relevant as Andrew Tate’s take on equal pay.

This is historical revisionism. Trans people were invented in the 20th century.

Trans people aren't hated apart from revolting AGP men, some of them deserve it but the concept of trans is harmful and therefore in your parlance 'hated' by many. Hating an ideology is not the same as hating people who subscribe to it.

Honestly I have to say, when it comes to "it's their body, their choice," when anyone feels that they identify as another gender gets completely thrown out the window to be never uttered. Tattoos, piercings, other body modifications, the style of dress, even abortion, it's always been "their body, their choice." However if it makes that person happy to dress differently, be addressed differently, etc. then TERFs are clutching their pearls because it doesn't fit the mold with what they're willing to accept. Christine Jorgensen was the first American to undergo MTF surgery in 1951, was an army soldier and then went on to become a well respected popular actress and singer after her transition. Nearly 75 years ago. Yet people think this is an issue that suddenly just popped up in the last five years or so. While underage, nothing can be done without a parent's consent, so all of this spewing of "they're going to do all of these major body modifications" is not going to happen from a medical standpoint. Finally, the gay community only encourages people to be happy with themselves to avoid hating themselves, with nearly 50% of trans youth attempting suicide in the UK due to discrimination. Who would want to pursue this kind of life with those stats? And no, there's not a recruitment process to push someone in one direction or another in the community - that's the job for politicians, churches, and cults that task themselves with increasing their numbers. People cannot actually believe, with a straight face unless they are just totally out-of-touch, that again, this is a life chosen by choice instead of just simply living a lie to be accepted by everyone. OP, if you have questions or just someone to talk to, below is a link to consider contacting. Best of luck to you and your family.

SupportLine

You say your husband has no opinion on the trans debate and he thinks you're a bigot.

Your husband has an opinion on the trans debate.

Rant ahead.

The issue is that she was surrounded by people who think LGBT+ is a fashionable choice. If you didnt have a little rainbow flag in the required colours then you didn't have any value.

They also (ironically) had very standard gender stereotypes. Gender is a stereotype. If you're saying that gender is more than body parts, then you get into a definition of male/female and what, if not clichéd stereotypes, is that?

I'm female because I have the required body parts. How I live my life does not make me female. I am more than a list of things women traditionally do/are or aren't.

This is how you end up with women being under-represented in STEM or men being under-represented in care. They are stereotypically gender-ed jobs. Women in STEM are can be seen in negative terms and men working in care can be seen as dangerous.

I said above that I couldnt give a damn if a man wears a dress, calls himself Jane and works in a traditionally female industry like childcare. It doesn't make him a woman. If he says he is trans, it just makes him a man who believes in gender stereotypes.

We are better than that.

My daughter has female body parts. She is female. What she wears and does, does not make her a man. It's extremely harmful to say otherwise.

She likes science, why cant she be a woman who likes science and wear's "men's" trousers? Why is it being made deeper than that? Why is she being told that a women isn't good enough to work in science?

This summer I went into Primark to buy a summer hat for a baby. I asked a shop assistant where they were. He asked "boys or girls?". It's a frigging hat! In another shop stickers, yes stickers, were split into boys and girls. It's absolutely ludicrous!

The book "Bedtime Stories for Adventorous Girls" (or whatever it is) had a trans person in it. They said he knew he was a girl because "he liked pink and sparkly things". Really? Is that what it comes down to?

Are we really, in 21st century reducing people in this way?

She can look/wear/work etc however she wants. I will raise her up and do everything fucking thing I can to help her and I have and will continue to fight for her. I will not however say she is male because she likes chunky trainers and short hair. She deserves better.

if she gets upset easily on this topic I definitely wouldn't give the book as an Xmas present - too public and surprising. Maybe if she brings it up suggest she have a look online or in a name book in the library? Given that legally she can't change her name anyway how about suggesting a nickname/ version of current name - gives more future flexibility.

Well said, @Allaboutthechild , well said (spoken as a woman in an extremely male dominated industry who doesn't perform femininity well, with a gay son whose a dancer but yeah, still a bloke).

And, when she moved away from the first school, almost overnight she dropped her adopted name (which was, by the way a stupid made up name as someone above said) and stepped back from claiming to be trans.

She was so brainwashed that she believed the crap that women have to be "girly" and stay at home and sew and is finally starting to recognise the gender lies. She thought being female was a poor option.

I can't believe that is not a coincidence that has changed/is changing as soon as she moved from that environment.

Regarding her name. It belongs to her. She has to live with it. If she wants to change it (she's only talking informally, she's never said changing it legally) that is fine. If she wants something not traditionally female (her current name is), that's fine too. She agrees thar a gender neutral name is the best option for her. She asked me to help her chose and was very happy wjen I said I would.

@Allaboutthechild, honestly I think you are navigating a difficult situation well. I wouldn't give the book at christmas in front of everyone as it may be a little public if she's sensitive to it but giving it to her privately is lovely. I think it shows support and an openness to connect as she explores these feelings. Keeping the door open, maintaining communication and not picking her up when she backtracks on something she was previously adamant about will protect your relationship in the long run.

If she is exploring gender identity and how she wants to represent herself to the world then I would lean in on some rebellious, non-conforming women. mary Shelley, Vivienne Westwood etc.

It sounds like she lacks a strong sense of self at the moment.

I wouldn’t be necessarily averse to a new name, but I wouldn’t engage in buying a book and essentially renaming her.

I have been through something like this OP, and - aside from all the other issues - re the name change, I would strongly recommend that she chooses one with the same initial she has now. Especially if she's not changing it formally, at this point.

Lots of letters, doctor's appts, etc, are with just the first initial. Saves a lot of bother.

The problem with posting this here OP, is that you’re going to get an influx of people from just one side of the debate which isn’t going to help you. I would highly recommend seeking advice from a less biased source - as you can see the only person who has actual experience of this is already being piled on. FWIW, I believe in supporting your child no matter what, and if that includes a name change that includes a name change. Almost everything (bar surgery) that comes along with being trans etc is reversible, despite what people will claim. I think the book sounds like a lovely idea, and agree with you just leaving it in her room for her. I hope she figures out who she wants to be and is very happy, no matter how she looks.

It’s not “hate”, it’s just that some people don’t believe in genders. There’s 100+ of them now, aren’t there? To me, it’s just very self-absorbed people trying to describe an aspect of their personality.

I'm uncomfortable with the idea that parents have to actively 'support' their teen children in every shifting identity fad change. I think our job as parents is to be the solid presence in their lives. So I'd go along with the new name (her name, her choice) and give my honest input if its requested, but I wouldn't feel the need to 'support' her if that makes sense. She isn't going to stop being biologically female because she goes by 'Alex' or 'Sam' or whatever and its not kind or wise to pretend otherwise. And it isn't healthy for your relationship with her in the long run for you to pretend to believe things you don't. She needs to trust your honesty. I guess also I'm influenced by knowing several older teens who've come out the other side of this and are very eye-rolly about it in hindsight. And the fact that parents stayed well out of it has actually been good for their relationship with their teen in the long run.

@Allaboutthechildthis is such a difficult situation to be in.

First, your husband and you are on different sides. It is going to be very difficult to support your daughter if there isn't a consistent foundation with which she can fallback on. This is going to be a very stressful and turbulent time for her - so security from both of you can make a huge impact.

Second, social transitioning isn't neutral and can add more confusion as she navigates her identity and the world around her. You haven't mentioned anything about her being ND - this could be a possibility which could be fuelling her inner turmoil. If she is able to understand, I would explain the fact that sex is fixed and that changing her name will have consequences.

Is she open to therapy? A place for her to explore these issues. If so - find a therapist that doesn't promote gender affirmation. Gender ideology is rife in the profession and it would be wiser to find a therapist who understands adolescent psychology, is ND competent and most importantly offers exploratory therapy to unravel whats going on for her.

I think it's really nice that although you don't really understand, you're trying hard to be supportive. I think it says a lot about you as a mum that you're willing to put aside your own feelings on the topic, and love and support your daughter regardless of whether it makes sense to you. Well done OP.

Mumsnet is heavy TERF territory, so I'll probably be unpopular for saying it, but I don't understand a lot of the hate and anger at the trans community. When you consider that - like in this case - it could be your own child who's feeling lost and uncomfortable in their own body, confused about their identity, and unhappy, how can you be angry? If your child says they want to identify as a flying zebra print mongoose, as long as its safe and legal, as a mum, you support whatever makes them happy. Sometimes that involves a little bit of tongue biting, but ultimately I believe everyone should be allowed to identify and present themselves in whatever way feels right to them, and it's not for the rest of us to judge.

Yes it's a puzzle @superbakedpotato . I wonder why a site so heavily dominated by women and mothers should be hostile to a movement that promotes regressive gender stereotypes and is actively harmful to women and children?

You need to be 16 I think to do a deed poll so she will have to wait a bit.

I don't have children but if I had girls I would have given them a gender neutral name (first or middle) because even though it is 2025 sometimes it is useful to hide your sex.

Being a woman and a mother doesn't mean you must believe trans people are harmful predators.

Who on this thread has said trans people are harmful predators?

Always in this conversation things are boiled down to the binary, male/female feminine/masculine goodies/baddies. Nothing about bringing children up is binary. Nothing about human behaviour is binary and it's not useful to think about it like that. This is a woman wondering about how to talk sensitively to her daughter about the system that has repressed her throughout her life and is now actually being reinforced by a movement claiming to subvert it.

Not so far, but I'm pretty sure everyone has seen the hundreds of threads on here about trans women using the ladies loos...

Just sharing my views. Personally, as a feminist I don't feel the existence of trans women takes away from my safety, my rights, my freedoms. Trans women are just people trying to exist.

Personally I'd not do this.
There's one thing accepting your DD is into GI and that actively arguing a GC stance will probably not be helpful at this point, but another to engage with it and 'join in' for want of a better phrase.
Helping her select a new name if she hates her name is fair enough. Buying a book specifically to select 'gender neutral' names messages that you support the concept of being 'non binary/gender fluid' when you don't.
There is nothing wrong with being GC and the belief that people are one sex or the other, whether they like it or not. Just because your DD believes differently doesn't mean you have to compromise on your belief or pretend to support something you don't, which would actually be disrespectful and patronising.
Its very possible your DD will move past this. And if she does and comes to see it as misguided, I think its better for her to see that you played no part in encouraging her. I have a family member with a 'detransitioned' young adult who has actually said to the mother who supported him "What were you thinking?" and now had the idea his mother just said what he wanted to hear to keep him happy rather than being genuine and honest with him.
You can be as damned if you do as if you don't. So you may as well stay true to your convictions.

Oh the boxes young people insist on these days.
you sound like you are doing such a lovely job of trying to balance everything, I really admire you.