Daughter, gender queer, new name, brain dump

[Allaboutthechild]

First off - my daughter is fine with "she/her".

15yr old daughter.

I wrote a load of text but in summary, she said she was trans 2 years ago, now she is non-binary/gender query apparently. I've been "that's nice dear"-ing for years and biting my tongue, reassuring her that I love her and support her etc. Whilst screaming in my head.

She had friends who supported her when she said she was trans but they dont believe in non-binary (!?) so she is feeling unsupported. I said something this morning about trousers and she took it completely the wrong way. And it all came tumbling out about the hard time she's having.

She has always hated her (perfectly normal) name. She changed school in September. At her previous one she went by a made up name for 3 years. When she started at this school she went by her real name but now wants to change it. She is putting more thought into it this time. I'd rather she didn't change it. Not least because it will reinforce this gender stuff. But it's her name so it's her decision. Because of her age, I think it needs to be a serious decision this time. I also think it might stick.

She has asked me to help her chose a name (which I will admit was really flattering). She wanted a very masculine name so I suggested maybe a gender neutral name or a female name that could be shortened to a male name. She liked this idea.

So I've bought her a "gender neutral" baby name book for Christmas. My husband (her Dad) doesnt approve. He thinks I'm interfering and trying to influence her and encouraging it.

He has no opinion on the trans debate but thinks I'm a bigot and refuses to talk about it.

My daughter isnt stupid and will know I'm not completely on board with the gender stuff. But hopefully she does know I love her and I think helping her with a name will show her I support her.

Besides, she writes and is always asking for name ideas so if nothing else the book will help with that.

I dont think that giving her a name book is a bad thing or will make her think she's a boy more than she already does?

She's very private so I also think this might be a way of helping her to open up?

Ok. I've taken on board not giving the book as a Christmas present. I'll leave it in her room with a post it saying something like "thought you might like this. Love you" (nothing OTT) and leave it for her to come to me (or not). Thanks.

So where has this come from?
The name thing -
She's never liked her first or middle name.
Her name is not common but something 99% of people will know eg Heidi, Jemima, Francis etc. It's spelt a few different ways (like Claire/Clare/Clair) and we accidently chose a less common spelling. So she is always having to correct the spelling. She didnt want to start using the common spelling. Then someone made up an inoffensive silly nickname (like "Helen melon" type thing) but it stuck because she'd kick up a fuss whenever anyone used it.
I've always hated my name and wish I'd changed it when I could (she doesn't know this) so I'm not going to stop her if she feels like I do. Even though it makes me sad.

Trans/non-binary stuff -
She has quite a masculine aesthetic. Some of it is accidental eg she has really long legs and finds men's trousers fit better, some of it is because she values practicality above everything else (so super short hair because she cant be bothered messing with it) and some is choice eg she likes chunky trainers.
Plus she prefers stuff that a crazy amount of people consider "boys" things like science (yes I know that's stupid and I'm shocked that still happens).
Social contagion at her old school was awful. Everyone said they were LGBT+. Because of her look, people told her she must be trans and she is regularly called "mate" or "he" or "son" by strangers. Most of the girls at her old school were very, very girly. All of that means she began to question her gender.
Plus, she doesnt have the best opinion of her body. She is very tall and very lean and people think that's OK to comment on. If she gets trousers that fit her waist, they are too tight on her thighs so she is convinced she has big thighs. Nothing hugely concerning though I dont think bit I'm keeping an eye on it.

I dont think it's a coincidence that now she's changed schools, she has stepped back a little from the trans thing.

Is she happy?
She was really miserable at her old school (variety of reasons). She is a completely different person at her new school and is a lot happier. She has friends and is doing well socially and academically. She has hobbies outside of school. Less of her school friends say they are LGBT+ now which I think makes a big difference.

When she was at her old school we did discuss counselling with her (because she was so unhappy and it was looking like she'd start refusing school) but she said no and she seems in a much better place now so at the moment we dont think it's necessary but it's on the radar.

Pronouns
She is happy to use "she/her/they" but admits that "they" gets cumbersome. For a while she asked people to use "he/him" (she never asked us so we didn't) and although she doesnt care that people from her old school still call her "he", her preference is not to use that now.

Experimenting
I know she experimenting with stuff but she is really private and I dont want to do anything that means she won't talk to us about this. At least if she is talking to us and knows we support her, she is less likely to fall down a rabbit hole.

We let her do a pride march with her school a few years ago. She hung about afterwards and ended up at a trans stall who sold her a binder and told her she is absolutely trans and that her parents wouldnt understand and would kick her out. I only found out because she left the binder out. I need to protect her from that crap until she can understand it.

The last couple of Pride days I've organised other events on so she cant go to Pride without me actually saying she cant.

That was long but I think I answered the questions?

By going along with her wishes you’re actively agreeing with her that it’s possible to dither change sensor be no sex at all in her mind. In the Cass report they looked at how positive affirmation isn’t a neutral action as it sets children onto a pathway of social and then medical transition into something that they can never be.
If my child said these things I would very gently remind them that it wasn’t possible to change sex, but they could dress how they wanted. I would not agree to a change of name on her records at school but would be ok with her having a nickname. If they got angry with anyone who used their actual name they would be behaving like a toddler who thinks they’re Batman!
Social contagion has a lot to answer for.

I think you're taking absolutely the right line with this, OP, though your husband is being a knob. I'm as gender-critical as they come but I changed my name when I was 20 – it was too long and too "girly" for me and I like simplicity. Think Elizabeth to Kit, that kind of thing. I think your daughter needs to meet some middle-aged feminists!

Can I suggest you look at the really good advice given by Matilda Gosling on how to deal with teenagers flirting with trans identitities? Part 3 in particular has lots of calm, sensible advice and I know lots of people have found it useful: sex-matters.org/posts/publications/teenagers-and-gender-identity-the-evidence-base-parts-1-2-and-3/

I'd be so relieved that she was hopefully moving away from a path that could lead to medication and surgery. So relieved.

Is there something she can do with her original name that could work - even as simple as going by her first / first and middle initial? Something that she can easily roll back from if she chooses to later?

Or the nickname thing - your example of Helen Melon, would she use that to turn into something neutral and become 'Mel' or whatever. Or some other nickname type thing she might have picked up somewhere that she can bend to her requirements. My DB has a really random nickname from school, from one name morphing into another and another and so on. It's not even a real name. Or even a word! And he goes by it professionally.

Oh lord she ticks all the boxes doesn't she. When I say masculine obviously it's all bollocks but for want of a better word:

Masculine in aesthetic and clothing
Masculine interests
Not a "girly" girl
People commenting on her body
LGBT crowd telling her she must be trans
Big social contagion at school
Not happy at school (mmmm I wonder why??)
All reinforced by those bastard groomers at pride dripping poison in her ear about her parents kicking her out, come to us, only we will understand you, here's a binder 🤬

But once away from the social contagion and trans stall crap, becomes happier, doesn't want to use "him", even finds "they" a pain in the arse. Poor thing could have ended up doing irreversible damage to herself had the bastards on that stall had their way.

Sounds like a lot to do with social contagion and gender stereotypes.

Tell your daughter that a woman can be anything she wants to be (except a man).

It pisses me off so much that our daughters have been put back in boxes and that they are not really girl's/ women if they don't follow gender stereotypes.

It's the opposite of progressive.

As for the name, let her crack on.

I think the idea of just giving it, but also saying it will help with her writing, is a good approach. The best outcome is that her gender becomes the least interesting thing about her and the angst just fizzles out. If she writes, that could be a great way to express herself, have an identity as a writer.

I don't think you should sympathise that her friends arent supportive about being non binary or gender queer, she has seen that they/them pronouns are a total PITA and is gradually growing up a d realising that it isnt all about her. How do teens learn to stop being such hard work - by growing up and the occasional eye roll - don't turn this normal process into a drama. Can she even say what support she needs or is it basically attention and fuss?

She does seem a bit confused, female pronouns but wanting masculine name. Remind her that if she is coming up to GCSE then any certificates will be in the new name for all time so she needs to choose wisely.

Why do you suspect that? I'm gender queer and I changed my name to a perfectly normal one.

I think like you could be there and be supportive whilst not leaning into it. She does sound confused and maybe taking a proactive step in helping her change her identity (rather than just neutrally accepting a new name) could be more confusing down the track when she inevitably has doubts or changes her mind. Personally I wouldn’t give the book.

Hi OP,

I've been trying to think of a neutral way to respond, because I am quite biased on this since I am gender queer and changed my name.

I think you sound like a lovely, supportive mum. Of course people can have their own opinions on gender ideology and gender issues, if you can call them that, but I think overall, you should be accepting of DC's new name and I would encourage you to let her pick one with little involvement from yourself. Let her sit with the new name for a while before she legally changes it, because ultimately, changing it can be expensive and she/you don't want to do it multiple times if she ends up deciding it's the wrong name for her.

I understand why you are gender critical, but I always say that until you've been in someone's shoes who has or has had the feeling that they were born in the wrong body, you'll never truly understand how hard it is to hear your truth when our truth is much different. And I'm not trying to be patronising - I'm trying to see it from both sides of the coin.

Lean into the name change - and then she will know you support her x

Why did you feel the need to change your name?

Except the OP doesn't support her. Because she knows that people are not ‘born in the wrong body’ and cannot change sex.

No one said that people can change sex. Obviously that's not biologically possible. No one has disputed that. But trans people have existed since as early as 1200 BCE.

I didn't identify with my birth name. I always hated it because it didn't feel like me

None of your business. She needs to know and does not need to explain herself to randoms on Mumsnet.

‘Born in the wrong body’ is an absolute lie.

I’m a teacher and I have said in the past, ‘Would we say a child who uses a wheelchair was born in the wrong body?’.

OP, sorry if I’ve missed this, but is your DD ASD? We don’t have many trans/NB pupils anymore (it’s mainly over) but those that are have an ASD diagnosis.

just keep on doing what you do... my daughter aged 14 and onwards went through turbulent times. Cafcass, diagnosis of ASD and declared she was a boy and wanted to be called Toby. All the way through (and it was dreadful at times..self- harm/cutting/overdose) I just had to remain constant and there no matter what. She is now in early 20's- has Master's degree and in a steady and loving relationship. She is content and happy- sometimes it takes a while

Didn’t realise trans history could be dated so accurately, 🙄, mind you, history nearly always relies on the narrators viewpoint doesn’t it!

But that's how YOU wouldn't describe them. What if the person in a wheelchair said they were born in the wrong body?

I'm autistic, by the way. And I just don't see why trans/otherwise not cisgender people get so much hate

No hate from me, just a keen eye on safeguarding and 20 years experience working with children. I met one trans child in the first half of my teaching career (he also had a statement/EHCP for ASD), and countless in the last 10 years, although I think the numbers are plummeting.

Keep your knickers on ffs.

I think a lot of kids get very overwhelmed when going through puberty. I mean it’s not a nice thing to deal with.

i think it’s scary how many kids claim to be trans.

You are trying to cover that you aren’t happy either you they are doing and really aren’t making that good job of it. Hubby has called you out on it as he knows.
its a lot for you to work through good luck.