To ask which historical crossroads you wonder about?

[HoneyParsnipSoup]

For me it’s wondering what would’ve happened had Catherine of Aragon had a son and Henry hadn’t divorced her. Country may well be totally different.

If Gordon Brown had called an election in 2007, then it would have been before the global crash, and Labour by 2011 might have seemed more economically competent. No coalition, no Brexit. But Brown was concerned his majority (he was likely to win) would be smaller than Blair's

Christ, you only gave people 12 minutes to respond!

You lot ‘on the mainland’ co-opt Irish excellence frequently enough as it is! 🤣
(‘The Brits are always at it’ is the routine comedy reaction to some GB pundit referring to eg Cillian Murphy as a British actor; to including Irish names in any field of achievement under the ‘British’ category: that kind of thing.)
More often of course is it assumed that Ireland is indeed a constituent part of the UK. When corrected, you hear stuff like ‘well, we’re all Anglo-Saxon so it’s the same difference’; and worse (in terms of general knowledge, I mean).

But nah, I’d be confident that no reasonable circs exist whereby Ireland would re-enter the Union, unless an alternative history were found actually to exist between IRL and GB.
But after 800 years of woe, and all the cultural annihilation involved?
Yowza, no thank you. Let’s all remain jolly good friends; respectful and familiar, and enjoying our deep familial and cultural links which bind us together, but which don’t necessitate any return to old submission and control.

Trinity already carries considerable weight vis à vis Oxbridge, and becoming quasi-British would not enhance that nor is it ever desired.
It amused me to realise that my EngLit degree course at uni in England in the mid-70s contained a core module (Aestheticism and Modernism) which studied 90% Irish writers.
I mention that because literature is already shared between us, isn’t it? One probably found more Joycean than Laurentian influences in 1980s English novelists, as an example.

What Im getting at is that we already share the good bits of each other, and indissolubly.
I hope I live long enough to see reunification here, and the beginning of a truly liberated relationship between IRL and GB, as the very best of neighbours who maintain a relaxed attitude to each other’s quirks and irrational huffs.
Things could become really good, once we all wake up from the nightmare of history.
(Best of all will be an all-Ireland ⚽️football team at last! Just in time for a new Georgie Best to emerge)

Have a serene Sunday wherever you are x

everdine · Today 09:37
Under Margaret Thatcher house prices rose significantly

House prices have risen consistently under both Labour and Tory governments over the past 40 years. Is Mrs Thatcher entirely to blame?

I bought my first house in 1982, for £24k. Five years later, it was valued at £88k, nearly 4 times as much.

Then we had the crash, and I sold it for £50k in 1993. Friends who bought later in the 80s were in negative equity for years after the crash.

The Treaty of Versailles is the main one for me. So many cocks up of the 20th century would not have happened if a proper peace settlement had been agreed in 1918/19 rather than the punitive treaty that was signed.

Or perhaps he should have listened to what she was saying and taken it on board

I think house prices inflated during the early 70s

dm said our house doubled in value bought in 1972

Had one supreme court judge voted differently on the hanging chads

In fairness a third of the male population of France aged 20-32 died in WWI. They understandably wanted to punish Germany.

However, what could have very easily happened had Germany not sunk Lusitania is that Germany could and should have won WWI. If that had happened we would never have had WWII and millions of people would have been saved.

If one of Herod's soldiers had indeed killed the infant Jesus... no Christianity and all that followed.

Ooh, that’s a good ‘un

This argument treats Irish independence as a loss to Britain rather than a democratic correction to an unequal union. The question should not be how Britain might have been improved by Ireland’s continued inclusion, but whether Ireland had the right to self-determination after centuries of enforced British rule. From that perspective, Irish independence was a necessary act of political maturity and self determination.

If the library at Alexandria had not been burned.
All that knowledge and history of the ancient world could have percolated through Europe. The late Roman empire, the dark ages and middle ages could all have been so different, maybe the Christian Church would not have dominated for a thousand years. No need for a renaissance or Enlightenment.

Also worth noodling about is if George IV had had an heir.
No sideways leap to Victoria, thus no extensive royal family ties across Europe and Russia.
Imagine if it had led to a king who was very much his father's son….how deep would have been the difference in terms of Empire and in domestic rule?
I wonder whom he might have married. His father would have imbued him with catholic tastes!

I don’t think Charles could have married Camilla while she was alive

they already kept it secret didn’t they for several years after her death

Oh gosh I mean first and foremost it would’ve been to repel an inevitable invasion of Ireland rather than to assuage the British - Hitler’s plans showed he had every intention of invading Ireland and this would’ve happened the moment he successfully captured the UK, remaining neutral wouldn’t have been an option for long had the Allies not decided to go to war.

It does puzzle me slightly that ‘remaining neutral’ is seen as something which is not only a feasible but permanent position, its only permanent while other counties decide not to remain neutral.

So in our fictional alternate reality Ireland may have had no choice but to declare war anyway. In practical terms 5000 Irish men died with the Allies, so it would’ve been less of a leap than is imagined.

A mind bending thought experiment for sure

I’d not thought of that last bit - yes

is that were the extremism in USA come from then - the pilgrims?

Trinity already carries considerable weight vis à vis Oxbridge, and becoming quasi-British would not enhance that nor is it ever desired.

I'm sorry, but it absolutely does not!

I've worked at both Oxbridge and Trinity, and Trinity is absolutely full of itself on this one. You can't move for 'ooh, the Oxbridge of Ireland' nonsense.

No one outside Ireland thinks Trinity is anywhere approaching Oxbridge, or any of the heavy-hitting universities worldwide.

I thought Jesus was t famous until 300 years later when at Peter or Paul decided to pluck his sTory to spread Christianity

please correct me if wrong

just think they would have found someone else

If the 2nd Amendment of the US constitution didn't grant individuals the right to bear arms, mass shootings as Americans know them today would likely be rare, and thousands of private citizens would almost certainly still be alive or uninjured.
Everyday public spaces would carry less fear, and generations of Americans would grow up without active-shooter drills, bulletproof schoolbags, etc.

Ah looked this up - he was gradually being followed over 2nd and third centuries - the 300 years but is about Constantine

Or if Mary & Joseph had been able to have their own children.

The puritans were utter bastards, like all religious extremists. They were responsible for the witch trials and imprisonement for blasphemy - you could even be put on trial for thoughts or having moles on your body. They held curfew on sunday, they banned sports, singing, games and parties. Gender roles were extreme, women should be quiet for example.. the list goes on and on.

They were utterly savage to the catholic Irish, just so awful feeling is still bad to this day.

I'm so grateful that the British rejected it in the end and went back to Charles II. I think that they were in power for just over 30 years, but the damage has lasted centuries.

What if the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs had passed by earth harmlessly?