Right to bear arms

[Another2356]

I lived in the USA for 8 yrs and all my neighbours had guns, as a Brit I totally disagreed with this…. However since returning to the UK over the last 10 years, I’ve started to think they have a point. If UK law changes and I can purchase guns to protect myself and my family, I will absolutely do this. I feel I have the right to protect myself as the police are not available.

I can't think of any situation I have ever been in where I would have felt safer if I had been carrying a gun. However, I can think of plenty of situations where I would have felt a lot less safe if someone else had been carrying a gun so no, I don't agree and YABVU

An armed society is a polite society.

What utter rubbish.

Guns give an illusion of safety but in practical terms they increase the danger for most people, as well as making society less safe

I’d rather take my chances with a knife. In close conditions it’s faster and deadlier than a gun, and you’ve a better chance of injuring an assailant before it’s taken off you than with a gun.

A gun is only more advantageous when there is distance between you and an attacker, and then your best chance is to run.

Not in favour of everyone being armed. Mind a fully automatic assault rifle would be a bit of a laugh as a Christmas present this year. Much better than socks ?!

Can you at least elaborate? I know it's all too easy to dunk on a statement and hope the person doesn't have the patience to engage.

I amicably agree to disagree in any case, so good luck getting a rise out of me.

Well, I don’t agree with us having guns in the UK and the place then ending up like the USA with regular mass shootings (there’s enough nutters and knives on our streets already).

However, there’s a very big problem because, like you say, we can no longer count on the police.

I don't need to get a rise out of you. If you truly think that "an armed society is a polite society" there is no more to say.

Absolutely not and it will never happen in this country, thankfully.

How old are you OP? Have a read up about the Dunblane school massacre and the subsequent gun reform in the UK.

Lol, then there was nothing to say in the first place, was there? You saw an opinion that got up your nose and you felt compelled to dunk on it.

An armed society, where everyone is carrying a firearm, is a polite society because everyone knows they'll get shot up if they try anything stupid.

You agree that a car is unassuming, a tool and a great way to get around independently, yet it can also be turned into a deadly weapon when misused/abused, yes?

Right-o. Settled. Have a nice evening.

We have the right to bear arms in the UK. You just need to apply for a licence to do so. You might not be successful, if for instance, you are known to be a violent criminal. The US notion of a "right to bear arms" is actually the right to bear arms without record and without scrutiny, and the wholesale endorsement of a culture in which preventable gun deaths are completely normalised.

In the US, it's more likely that someone you will love, your partner, your child, maybe you - will use that gun to kill themselves, intentionally or by accident than it is that it will ever be used successfully in self defence. The majority (58%) of all gun deaths in the US are suicides.

And bringing out a gun in self defence in a country where gun violence is completely normalised like the US, is just increasing the likelihood that you will be fatally shot by your assailant, in their self defence.

I wouldn't like to own a gun and keep it in my house, because I value my children's lives. I wouldn't like to live in a culture which normalises preventable gun deaths because I value my children's lives, and human life in general.

The leading cause of death for children in the US is gun violence. I find that absolutely shocking but it would seem that their culture does value guns more than children's lives. Removing guns would save more children's lives in the US than curing cancer.

Where are you living that you think an actual gun is the answer!

An armed society is a polite society.

As what considered polite is hugely culturally based and very nuanced not sure how this could be measured objectively and thus compared against gun law and ownership.

The implication is people are polite in countries with high gun ownership because they could get killed if they are not - but there would be huge varraible with that if you part of a huge gun carrying group againt no gun carry indidudals wouldn't the biggerest group get away with being rude still.

It also implys shooting someone has no come back -ie police and legal routes don't work - which I can see in US TBH but while our police and CPS have issues - sometimes for unfortunate people huge ones - shooting someone in UK does come with massive blow back - ie being charged with murder or attempted murder - so the be polite or get shot doesn't really work and shooting carries serious implications - even armed police doing their jobs get their actions thoughly vetted.

I think you lived too long in the US. Their gun culture is not a normal way to live

I was talking to an American friend a few months after we'd had the riots here.

Fox news was still reporting the riots as though they were happening, and pretty widespread, so he was concerned how we were holding up.
I said they'd finished weeks ago, and the last ones had been damp squibs, and he commented that our riots seemed pretty quiet.
I wasn't sure what he meant so I queried what he meant.

"I didn't hear a single gun shot. Ones round here that's a big part of riots you hear."

Brought me up short what a population owning guns means. It means that people take guns and are prepared to use them to things like that. People will be shot on purpose/by accident in that sort of thing. His reaction was "yeah, that's normal".
Really hit him when I said that wasn't our normal. He's quote pro-guns but he said that made him think about what difference it could make. He's still popping questions from time to time about what not having guns means, and reconsidering his stance.

I don't want the UK to accept that for us.

I do hope that you don't have any decision making capacity or responsibility in your life or work.

I lived in a rough part of Dublin and was so glad I didn't have a gun as I'm a wee bit hot tempered

There a whole load of ex pat US citizens who do shorts on how US messed them up when they live in other countries - not jumping when a car back fires because they assume it's gun fire and they may need to find cover to stay alive - is a common one.

As PP mentioned:
BBC:Gun deaths were the leading killer of US children in 2020

Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that over 4,300 young Americans died of firearm-related injuries in 2020.
While suicides contributed to the toll, the data shows that homicides form the majority of gun-related deaths.

...

In past years, gun-related deaths were second only to car crashes as the leading cause of death among young Americans. Car deaths, however, have fallen over time and in 2020 approximately 3,900 Americans under 19 died in vehicle crashes.
...
Gun violence in the US has increased since the Covid-19 pandemic began in early 2020.

There are many countries that also have low gun deaths that aren't as restictive with guns as us in UK - but there is no public support for US style gun carriage or ownership in UK that I've ever seen.

The original argument in the US was less about protecting your family from criminals and more about the balance of power. Essentially, in a newly independent country they felt it was important that the populous were able to protect themselves from rogue governing authorities. They see it as necessary for upholding other constitutional rights like free speech.

Obviously, guns then and guns now are worlds apart. The idea of civilians being able to buy semi automatic weapons is incomprehensible in Britain, but we do have the ability to bear arms. We have shotguns for pheasant and clay pigeon shooting. One of my children attends a rifle club. We have a talented Olympic pistol shooting team, though I gather they practice overseas.

Have a gun to protect you from others who have a gun
That is why knife carrying and crime has gone through the roof. Kids carrying knives because others are carrying knives.

How many school shootings have there been in the US in the last 10 years? And how many have there been in the UK in the last 10 years?

I thought this thread was going to be related to the growing threat of war. I wondered if Ukrainian civilians had guns when Russia invaded. Or the Israelis after the festival atrocities.

As with the America scenario: is the downside worth it for the potential upside? I'm against the American attitude to guns and prefer the British approach. But then I wonder what would happen if war (could be civil) happened in the UK.

No, i don't want anyone to have a gun.

The US is full of nutters. Doesn’t seem to have made them polite.