Newborn circumcision

[Mumtobe2025x3]

Hi all,
my son is five weeks old. My husband is Muslim and I’m COE. When we were pregnant we had discussed having my son circumcised when he was a couple of weeks old due to my husband’s religious beliefs, which I agreed to.

Of course marrying a Muslim man I knew of what came with it when it came to having children etc. we have discussed our sons upbringing and he will be taught both cultures, religions and celebration Christmas and Eid etc. my husband is quite westernised so he’s not exactly a strict Muslim.

I suffered quite bad baby blues and when it came to discussing the circumcision at around 10 days old I lost it and said that I couldn’t deal with it right now and my husband said not to worry now and we will revisit at a later date.

I thought i was ok with my son being circumcised but now he’s here I’m actually not. It’s been brought up again today and it’s not helping that my husbands pushy family keep asking about when it’s happening. I’m really not ready for this. We’re already having issues with his family calling my son by a different name because they don’t like the name we’ve chosen as it’s not an Arabic name!

I’ve told my husband I’m not ready yet and he accepts this, I can tell it bothers him.

Am I being unreasonable about this? Obviously I know what I married into, but as his mother and he’s here, it now doesn’t feel right to put him through a procedure that’s totally unnecessary as he’s not a medical issue.

I am strongly opposed to neonatal supervision in modern, developed countries (on a bodily autonomy basis) - but honestly I think your attitude is hyperbolic and really quite hateful.

In terms of medical benefits vs risks - those are pretty much a wash in the context of developed countries in the 21st century. In many places around the world, though - and probably just a few generations ago in developed countries, the medical benefits have outweighed the risks.

It's not surprising that a medical procedure that for most of human history and in many places today, has been or continues to be beneficial, has not immediately ceased when the risk/reward analysis has become more marginal.

I really do disagree with it and would support it being banned in the UK (save for out of medical necessity or for adults with informed consent), but child abusers, unworthy of respect? Absolutely not.

It is absolutely not the same as fgm. How ignorant.

Cutting off body parts of newborn babies, entirely without medical necessity ie ‘body modification’, in the interests of religious or cultural beliefs is child abuse. It is mutilating the genitalia of children, unable to give permission. Any form of unnecessary mutilation of a child does not command respect and neither does their religion or cultural beliefs.

Benefits that outweigh the risks?
if this were the case then surely it would be widely practiced outside of religious circles?
it is certainly not the case that most uncircumcised boys and men experience complications of having a foreskin requiring intervention, so what do you mean?

This. barbaric unless medically necessary.

I would not risk putting a healthy baby under general anaesthetic unless it was to 100% needed!

They’re often not done under any anaesthetic

What you mean is his views don’t trump hers AND VICE VERSA. I know there’s a general disregard for the feelings of anyone male on here but you can’t marry into a different culture and expect only your feelings to be taken into consideration. It doesn’t work like that. If his feelings don’t trump hers then her feelings don’t trump his either. That’s what an equal partnership looks like.

"Medical necessity" is a high bar. In many countries, the World Health Organization explicitly reccomends it on a health benefits basis. Are parents in those countries - acting on expert advise to deliver positive health outcomes - child abusers, because it doesnt meet the "necessity" threshold?

So, in those countries it could be argued that it is a medical necessity then? At worst a medical preference? But OP isn’t in one of those countries is she? Nor are the ones in developed countries who do mutilate their children so that point is moot. So, again, parents who care more about their culture/religion than they do their children are abusers.

I desperately hope you feel able to
advocate for your son in this scenario because he needs you to. The fact that this is still allowed for non medical reasons is outrageous. It isn’t less traumatising because he is young. It will hurt him.

The feelings of a person defending a baby against completely unncecessary abuse most definately trump those of any dickhead who thinks that it is ok.

A parent who causes completely unnecessary suffering to their child has failed in their moral duty as a parent and, frankly, is a fucking arsehole.

It was widely practiced in the UK, for health reasons, for a time (prior to hygiene improvements and medical advances, post WW2).

It is still widely practiced (though diminishing) among non-religious people in the US.

Circumcision should be illegal globally. It's the ritualistic mutilation of a child. Absolutely appalling that your husband would even consider allowing it to happen.
My parents raised me with the belief that religion is nothing but a choice - and your child should make his own choice as to whether he wants part of his penis being removed.

Agree with you completely Gringle x

It's male genital mutilation! Simple as!

Okay, so you'd be okay with it (or, at least, not denounce the parents as abusers) if it had a significant health benefit.

Appreciating that, even in developed countries, it is only relatively recently (around the 1970/80s) that scientific opinon started to shift on the risk/reward analysis, at what point did (for example) Christians in the US and UK who continued the practice - perhaps not spending their days keeping fully abreast of the latest scientific analysis - cross the threshold from "responsible parent" into "child abuser"?

Again, I do think that the lack of compelling medical benefits in modern day developed countries means that it is ethically wrong on a bodily autonomy basis, but a lag between shifts in public perception and scientific analysis is not unusual, particularly when even the current consensus on the purely medical aspect is nuanced.

It’s evil - it’s GBH inflicted by the babies own parents.

You would make it illegal even in countries where it saves thousands of lives every year, and is reccomended by leading health organizations?

I feel you OP. My son was born prematurely and had a lot of health problems and the last thing I would do was let him be circumcised. My DH well I suppose his family kept pushing it and I was so so scared they were going to take my son and do it anyway.
Eventually he got to around 6 years and my DH was like it’s happening this year no more faffing and I said over my dead body, if you have to disown your son because of it then go ahead. My son was absolutely petrified of it too , as well as being ASD.
We had a few weeks of not talking and he spoke to his parents who were sad (🙄) but respected my decision as a mother. I do get sick of his aunties and cousins asking ‘why is he not circumcised’ - like why is my son’s penis of so much importance to you ?! They have called my son dirty before and look down on him as if he’s not accepted. Makes me really angry but luckily minimal contact with them.
I really hope you can meet a mutual agreement 😢 it’s really hard when you are actually put in that position.

Sorry, but this is not the case.
Google will tell you anything. You need to look and understand proper medical studies, their bias and their implications.
Historically, large studies showing a benefit vs risk for infant circumcision have been mostly undertaken in America, with a likely significant cultural bias. Some of these studies have also been done in countries where benefits may be greater due to greater risk of STIs, HIV or different hygiene practices.
More recent large scale meta-analysis have showed that there is no clear health benefit for healthy infants in the UK, other than where it is medically necessary for specific reasons.
I’m sorry that your OH had to have it done and it is a more difficult procedure as an adult. However, a small proportion of adult males requiring treatment or circumcision obviously doesn’t justify unnecessary surgery on a baby.
At least 3 baby boys are known to have died in the last 20 years post circumcision and as a direct result of the surgery. There will have been may more who suffered complications, short or long term.

Gosh how arrogant of you to come on and tell me what I mean. Actually what I said is what I meant so no need to rewrite my post for me. If you have a different view then post on your own behalf not on mine thanks.

Your argument is non sensical in this situation there’s no compromise for circumcising a baby you either do or you don’t. So sorry but in this scenario one person’s view will trump another. Like it or not that is how it works in this situation and it has nothing to do with equal partnerships.

It’s nothing to do with disagreeing because it’s a male view point that’s just a lazy argument on your behalf to try to invalidate someone’s opinion. I’m always going to side with the person choosing not put a baby through pain for cultural beliefs. If the OP had a baby girl and her husband’s family wanted to cut her genitals would you be telling everyone that his feelings should be taken into consideration and it must be an equal partnership? I doubt it.

It’s not about ‘feelings’ through is it? It’s one party being concerned about putting a baby through surgery which in the Uk, is medically unnecessary unless there is a specific condition that requires it. Surgery that although very safe, of course carries risks. In the UK, three babies have died in the last 20 years as a direct result of circumcision.
Concern isn’t ‘disregarding’ the feelings of anyone. It’s a sane, loving and sensible parental response to putting a healthy baby through surgery, exposing him to unnecessary pain and risk.

I am religious, but no way would I put a child through an unnecessary medical procedure in the name of any God.

Fucking sick in the head!