Council tax is a c**t

[Upholstery]

What kind of a tax doesn't take account of how much money you have? It's all just a bloody con.

I believe in self responsibility and that it is reasonable that the wealthy don't take from the state when they can afford not to. I don't get child benefit as I earn too much - I think that is fair. I try and take a little for the state as I can so that the resources can be used for those with real need?

Do you think low income families should subsidise me?

Some of the children currently being educated will be the doctors, nurses and other essential workers one day, or the plumber you need in an emergency. You'll benefit, albeit indirectly, from their education.

You have no way of knowing whether or not you will need care when you're older, or when you might need the police or fire service. These services are there in case you do.

The roads on your estate will almost certainly have been adopted by the council at some point and thereafter will be maintained at public expense. And unless you have a flying car and can levitate, you are bound to walk and drive on other roads and pavements maintained by your council.

For years now, possibly decades, the grant to councils from central government has been cut significantly in real terms. Councils have had to increase council tax and reduce spending as a result.

You don’t need to apply for it. No one forces you to.

So you are arguing for more benefits for the rich funded by low earners. As a rich person for this that is ok if you insist. I suppose I could always top up the kids trust funds a bit more.

Agree. It’s so unfair.

It's much cheaper to deliver services in an urban area compared to a rural area, or an area with a mix of towns and rural areas.

I worked in local government in 2 London boroughs and then moved to a county council in a predominantly rural county, and it was a real eye opener. All 3 had similar sized populations.

In the county, the number of children who needed transport to school funded because there wasn't a school within 3 miles was huge, it was negligible in the London boroughs. The county council had (iirc) 8 times as many libraries, so that people didn't have to travel huge distances to use them; and 5 register offices instead of one. The bin men spend far more time on the road, so more bin men (and lorries) are needed to service the same number of homes and there are far more council tips. Staff like social workers and housing officers who work out in the community have significant travel expenses that have to be paid because of the distances they have to cover.

And a lot of areas still have two-tier local government, so double the amount spent on councillors' allowances and shedloads more in mileage because some of the county members have an 80 mile round trip to get to meetings.

I agree - I paid £1200 a year for a one bed flat in Glasgow in 1997 worth £40k. I was earning £8000.It was an absolute outrage how much Council Tax cost back then.
I no longer live in Glasgow but now live in a band G property now worth £1.25 million and we only pay around £4000.

I think it's very unfair tax.

My MIL gets pension credit that's just a few pounds pw less than my state pension, plus approx £125pw housing benefit (council property) and 100% reduction in her council tax which would be around £125 a month.

I have a small occupational pension and I pay 20% tax on it, and don't qualify for any help with my council tax, so half that private pension goes straight to the council. But what I'm most jealous of is the fact that when anything in her house goes wrong, she rings the council, who come and fix it; when it happens to me I panic about how much it might cost me to get it fixed.

MIL only worked for approx 8 years in her life, too, I worked and paid tax for 53 years without a break, and overall I'm worse off than she is.

Some of us are still having to pay quite a lot even with the deductions. I switched from ESA to UC recently. I was paying £21 a month. I'm now having to pay an extra £60 a month.

I worked in welfare rights too, and loads of my clients got more in income than me. But that was mainly because they mostly had significant mental health issues or LDs and often other disabling health conditions, and I wouldn't have swapped places either.

And if the same principle was extended to the police, also part-funded via a precept on council tax, it would be even more absurd.

The police would refuse to investigate rapes, muggings etc if the victim hadn't paid their council tax.

So you would apply for it then?

Councils have their own schemes for help with council tax. Where I live, even the poorest have to pay 20% of their council tax, in the neighbouring city, they wouldn't have to pay any.

I think it should be the same nationally.

I remember the poll tax riots etc but was quite young. From what I've said it felt quite said to me but I know a lot of people were very upset so I'm obviously missing something? I do feel that use of local services is more related to numbers of people than the size of their houses. Maybe someone can explain it.

it didn't take into account the ability to pay. At all

So someone is a massive house earning loads paid the same as someone in a one bed flat earning £2.50 an hour.

Ah right, that really was daft then! You'd think being a personal tax it would be easier to take affordability into account. Thanks

Until a few years ago, my local council did 100% discount for people on UC (it might have been certain groups though). I was on UC after it changed, and I know people on the same UC as me who are not paying CT at all, and I am paying 20%. It does seem unfair.

Wow that is still minimal. Think how lucky uou are and spare a bought for those paying £400 PLUS PLUS a month and probably using less services than you.

Wow, you do know what ESA is and what it is for, right?

Yes of course I'm so lucky to be so severely disabled to be on a sickness benefit. I'm also sure those people have more money than me

The reasoning behind the poll tax was to stop people who could pay tax dictating what tax got spent on.

It was inspired by a media-led witch hunt against the "loony left" who were running councils in areas with serious deprivation where voters who did not pay tax elected councils who then raised the rates sky high.

It was essential that affordability was not taken into account, otherwise all the time and money and effort put into setting up the poll tax would have been a total and utter waste of time (something the Tories have always beaten Labour at.).

The poll tax riots were not the reason it was abandoned. That's just media manipulation. The real reason it was abandoned is because all of a sudden a ton of rich men suddenly discovered they'd have to pay for their wives and adult children living at home. And having spent 300 years managing to avoid that, they were not going to start in 1990.

Not to hijack the thread but I wonder what a better solution is to local taxation. In USA it's linked to income like income tax I think, though I believe it also varies from state to state and some pay YOU!

Hmm mine is £120 a month. Without any benefits on a band C house ( with single person discount) Must be a big bloody house at over £400 a month council tax. Move so where cheaper

Not to hijack the thread but I wonder what a better solution is to local taxation.

It depends what you want to achieve, really. In a democracy most taxation centres around the need to get re-elected at some point. All else is moot.

The problem with a local income tax is that the same people who manage to avoid paying all the income tax that they should would also get away without paying the local tax, too. At least with a property-based tax they're more likely to pay their share.

It's much harder to hide a house than it is to conceal your income, at least for those who aren't on PAYE.