To not take my 3 and 5 year olds to restaurants

[Meerkat6373]

We haven’t taken our 3 and 5 year old boys to a restaurant in months because it was a disaster last time. Constant messing around at the table, trying to get down, knocking stuff over by accident. Fair enough we tried to do it without tablets and took loads of books, stickers etc for the table but they just wouldn’t listen to a word we said. If we’d taken tablets maybe they’d have sat good as gold but I’m trying not to go down that route. Not for any judgey reasons but I’m concerned screen time actually makes their behaviour worse.
We took them to a pub yesterday and nothing has changed. I was actually mortified by how out of control they were, despite us trying a million strategies to get them to behave well. We’ve tried reward charts, sanctions, modelling behaviour, praise. Nothing works!

Don’t go at the weekend. Go somewhere quiet. Maybe try somewhere where you can speak to people beforehand and tell them you’re practising

I think you're right not to take them anywhere while they don't really understand how to behave.

But they do need to practice, otherwise how will they ever know? Taking them to family friendly places might be a good way to start? not too often, not least because it is stressful for you, but enough so that they can see that most people are sitting down and eating?

Do you practice this at home? meals at the table, making conversation etc? i think it is an essential social skill but am aware that i may be in the minority there.

We take ours to child friendly restaurants that have either outside apparatus like climbing frame with swings, slide etc or a soft play.
They love it, we get to sit and chat, they get to play and don’t get bored waiting for the meals to arrive
and then they’re happy to eat nicely with the bribe of playing again after while we enjoy a glass of wine.

Like others have said, start with McDs, build up to 'Spoons, and soon the restaurant world will be your oyster. I had three children with less than 3 years between them, and this worked for us.

I would keep to the 'no tablets' rule. Harder for now, but it will pay dividends.

That's rough but you're doing the right thing. Why should you pay extra for a stressful experience plus (I don't know if this was the case) worrying about getting eyeballed judgmentally by other diners?

My sibling used to take their children into restaurants constantly, not watch them, let them run wild, getting under staff feet, sitting at other tables,and scream the place down. I mean sometimes scream through the entire meal. At one point the owner came over with the bill, sibling huffily said we haven't ordered dessert yet and owner said you need to take your child outside to calm them down. Sibling then refused to pay for the meal on the grounds that if they have high chairs they are welcoming children.

It was just their personalities but why should everyone else suffer?

We have DC who by nothing more than chance are very docile so we've always been able to relax in restaurants. If not I would stay home too.

I agree with you on the screens too; short term win for medium term suffering.

I don't see the point in taking them unless you need to eat out, for example you are on a day trip and have to eat.
Then I usually find child friendly options, pizza express is always good, pubs with play areas.
I see no point whatsoever in taking young chiidren to a restaurant for the sake of it.
Why are you concerned? Do you think you should be taking them but can't?

I never went to pubs and restaurants as a child because my parents couldn’t afford it, somehow as an adults I can manage these situations just fine.

basically it doesn’t sound enjoyable for you, OP so don’t do it! It’s not necessary and a waste of money if you don’t enjoy it. Save the money you would spend and spend it on something you would enjoy eg cocktails with your mates 🥂
@Meerkat6373

Well done you 👏 (sorry that sounds so, so sarky! It's not, it's just nice to see someone trying their best and accepting when it isn't working)

What works at home? Could you try taking them out 1:1 or seating them apart?

Fwiw, I think you've got the right idea. It's so expensive to eat out now that you're best off saving the money if it'd going to be stressful. Just grab nice pizzas and chips and have a floor picnic and 100% less stress x

Brother and I were taken to restaurants from birth - the rule was that if you didn’t behave, we left. Brutal but effective (and no scrummy food or dessert to look forward to, just some dry toast at home).

We’ll be doing the same with our little one, but will bring colouring etc with us (which my bro and I never got lol). But each to their own, OP, you have to work out the best thing for your kids, given their personalities.

I do sometimes quite enjoy going out for lunch as a family with my 2 and 4 year olds, but it has to be a very child-focused outing for it to actually be fun. So we'd need both parents, a cafe with food options the children enjoy, served promptly. One I would go to on purpose has a lunch service that starts at 12pm, so if you turn up right at the start, you can order and be served quickly, and they will bring the children lukewarm macaroni cheese so they don't have to wait for it to cool down. But I wouldn't be going out of my way to train my kids to be good at restaurants unless I actually needed them to be (I can imagine you might want this if e.g. you like to go on AI holidays where they need to eat in a hotel restaurant every night, or you have extended family that does big family meals in restaurants etc.). Otherwise as PPs say, they can learn the skills when they're old enough to be interested in trying new foods and sitting and chatting, so they actually want to be in the restaurant. I'm sure all the techniques people use do work, but if the outing is not actually fun for either adults or children, why do it?

A harvester is a great child friendly option. We go regularly with two under 4's and about 95% of tables have an under 10 on them so there is a far higher tolerance for the odd behaviour slip.

My older two were fantastic in restaurants, right from being tiny.

My youngest - Christ on a bike. We knocked that on the head as it was just painful for everyone involved.

She turned 5 in August and the last few months, we’ve tried a couple of meals out with family and she’s been brilliant. But when she was 2/3, no thank you.

We don't do screens either. Whilst ours will sit with a sticker book or whatever they do get restless. They don't get up and run around but generally can get silly or slightly louder than we like. For this reason we don't go out to restaurants for social reasons it's more just eat and go kind of thing. This suits us quite well they are 4 & 6. They probably seem better at sitting still than some children, we have had people around us in the past compliment us on how behaved they are. However as parents we find it stressful and what you pay for meals nowadays it's just not worth it for us to do it often.

Maybe you're doing too much of a big jump? Do you enforce table manners at home? That is a good place to start. If that is already done, you could try "playing restaurants" at home kind of like a role play.

The other thing to do is consider timing. If you're aiming for their usual mealtime then they're going to be hungry and all young children find it harder to behave when they're hungry. Time it so that including the time taken to order and wait for the food, they're getting their meal a little bit earlier than they usually would so they aren't ravenous waiting.

Lunch might also be easier than dinner.

You could also pick places that you don't usually have to wait long, like pizza hut or a carvery or Chinese buffet. Or McDonald's. Just to get them used to the idea of eating out and about and some of the expectations before you upgrade to a pub or restaurant.

And yes if you take a break for a couple of years they will be older and more able to manage but you can also do it in the short term if you meet them halfway.

YANBU to not take them, small children don't need to be in restaurants. It's fine.

I would be concerned about their behaviour though because they should be able to have a quick meal out without issue. Is their behaviour generally bad or is it specific to restaurants?

I never understand this thing of 'how will they learn?'. Surely they learn at home. When I was a kid we even had breakfast as a family at the dining table. I wonder how often that happens these days?

Those were the days when 9-5 was a thing and you could all eat together.
My husband gets up at 7 has breakfast and leaves the house by 7:30 and the children get up at 8 to get ready for school.
He then gets home between 6-7 when the children have eaten and having a bath, sometimes he doesn’t get home until after 7 when they are in bed.
Families should be able to eat breakfast and dinner together but that’s just not how it is anymore, they’re lucky if they get a goodnight.
When I go back to work I won’t eat with them either as they’ll be in wraparound care.

For me, it was manageable by a mix of frequent walks from 2-4, coupled with a lot of attention from 3-4.5, and now at nearly 5, he is just about ok to have an "adult" meal, without any need for special effort.

I remember plenty of meals though where I would take him on a long walk after ordering, then again while the other adults finished, then again while waiting for the bill etc. Because even with attention he could only sit there for so long.

Then when he got a bit older it was that he could sit there, but only if you were giving him your attention/talking to him, or giving him something to do.

And now, its just about ok for normal meals.

I kind of miss those years of getting up and going for long walks.

It is definitely normal for young children to struggle to sit still in restaurants un-aided.

We had the same experiences. Mortifying. My youngest was 2-3.5 during Covid and then I was pregnant so we missed going to any restaurants during that period almost entirely. My second DC was awful in restaurants from age 2-4 though - he is constantly moving. Kids are not made to sit still quietly at those ages. My two are 7 and 4 now and actually we can have a chilled out meal now but we stick to a quick brunch, pizza express, pubs with a beer garden or play area in the summer. If it’s a longer meal e.g a family special occasion, then we might bring something new and novel like a Lego mini figure or a magazine which they can play with. Colouring, a few toys or building blocks etc help. I think generally starting in places less formal, short periods, and building up their experience is the way to go. But most of time it isn’t much of a fun experience until kids are around 5

What?

Don't most people eat all meals at a table?

Lots of families lack the space for a dining table. Some people don’t think it’s important to have one.

So I wouldn’t say most people.

We had a rough time when DS1 was 18m-2.5ish, but he's 3.5 now and can do ok. DS2 is 1 and I feel like he's about to enter the stage of hating it.

Funnily enough, it's family walks for us that are a disaster. I'd take a meal out over trying to get my 3.5yo, 1yo and dog to go on a walk together where we don't all end up pissed off or crying.

I think you need to eat out more, not less. I’d start off with going for a muddy walk, stopping at a pub for a quick drink and carrying on the walk. Build up their ability slowly so that it’s not disturbing for others. Do they manage to sit still at school?
I eat out very regularly with mine so it’s just always been second nature.

Ick, I posted twice 😬

They’re extremely boisterous and don’t really listen to a word we say in any scenario! The youngest was delightful until about a month ago when he started being defiant and finding it hilarious to never listen to us