To think this should be sick leave not annual leave?

[Toddlerteaplease]

I am having a new treatment for a chronic neurological condition. It’s two IV infusions 15 days apart, then 6 monthly after that. The first infusion fell on my days off. I told my manager that I’d need the day of the second infusion off. But apparently I either have to swap a shift or take it as annual leave. I can’t have it as sick leave as I’m not technically sick. (She is fully aware of the diagnosis!) I work in the NHS. Is this correct? I feel slightly aggrieved at having to use annual leave for something I have no choice over! And my sickness record is very good!

Hi- I work for NHS OH and cover 10 different Trusts in our region. Most (but not all) of the Trusts I offer OH advice for would allow you to take this as disability leave as opposed to sick or annual leave. Most (but not all) the Trusts I cover will have a policy to cover this. The policy could have many names, Either a ‘managing attendance’ or Disability and reasonable adjustments’ or ‘special leave’. I hope you get it sorted 😊

It’s definitely not annual leave, so sorry @Toddlerteaplease !

They should have an attendance management policy. They should have an occupational health department and they should have a special leave policy. You should be able to find this info on your intranet or through HR

if your neurological condition is classed as a disability under the act then it is disability leave, not annual leave and not sick leave

@Popadomorbread totally agree. I work for the NHS you need to have your condition registered. !

@Toddlerteaplease i also work in the NHS and totally agree this is not annual leave. a chronic condition is protected under equality act, this would be discrimination. I work with a lady with a chronic health condition she has a lot of health and medical appointments she does not need to take leave it’s just granted.speak to union rep for clarity and HR. I don’t think anyone would side with the manager in this instance.

There is a policy for medical treatment (nhs also). I have MS & I’m not sure if you have too but I have to take mine as a/l or if my manager agrees I can use TOIL. There is a policy for disability leave which might be applicable but it has to be pre-planned so can be used for change of medication but your manager needs to agree this.

Occ Health practitioner here (I ran an OH department in a large NHS trust for 6 years). You are likely to be covered by the Disability provisions of the Equality Act (2010). Therefore your manager has to consider reasonable adjustments for your condition. One of which is likely to be time off to attend appointments. So you technically don't have to take it as either. Ask for a referral to OH to discuss what if any reasonable adjustments you might require.

If you are in a union talk to them as well.

Does your trust have a sickness team or an equality and diversity team as part of HR? If so I would contact them as in our trust if it’s a long term condition you can have time off for planned appointments without having to work it back and you can ask for a reasonable adjustment passport to cover this and time off

Definitely not annual leave. Just persist and as lovely as your manager might be, it doesn't really sound like she is actually that supportive.

We are all really bums on seats (or whatever job you do) and easily replaceable at work but not for your family. Look after yourself first before your job and ask for reasonable adjustments for your work load etc.

Speaking as someone who has never been employed by the nhs, this is absurd. I can't imagine any situation where any business I've ever worked for in the last 40+ years would be so unyielding about this. I'm appalled.

Then you need to be having a word with your manager as well.

the idea of the equality act is to make things equal -

if you didn’t have MS you wouldn’t be needing to take time off for additional appts or treatments.

therefore under the equality act reasonable adjustments must be made to ensure staff with disabilities are not disadvantaged when taking time for appts or treatments or sickness related to their disability.

by telling you you must take a/l or toil for these appts your manager is disadvantaging you because you are having to use these for appts that a non disabled person wouldn’t need to.

to take it as unpaid is the same principle - you’re colleagues wouldn’t need too lose salary due to disabilities so you shouldn’t but unfortunately- there’s no automatic right under law for it to it to be paid - some employers will allow it to be recorded as sick leave - others have disability leave policies to distinguish between the two which are paid /partial paid or unpaid

—others may just have it unpaid authorised absence - but that would be leaving them open to discrimination claims

if that’s the case that’s it’s unpaid and you chose to take as a/l or toil that’s your choice but it’s pretty shitty to be forced into that position so again - most trusts will have a paid disability leave policy. You may need adjustments in place to recognise this but again this should be automatically considered by your manager.

shift swaps - yes at a push if you are able (ie it isn’t going to cause detriment to health eg if an epileptic nurse was told to have the time off for a neurology appt was only possible if she swapped her allocated day shift for a night shift would be unacceptable
so no shift swaps aren’t enforceable either

in short - the correct and equitable way to record the time is for the treatment itself - disability leave. Post treatment when you are too unwell to work - sick leave - get a fit note.

If you have a good doctor will record first day of not fit to work as the first day of treatment though - it’s sick leave ☺️

Christ, who’d work for the NHS! Hope you get it sorted OP.

(As an aside, I feel this is where I’m justified in never using the term “annual leave”. It’s holiday. Our HR system actually calls it holiday. The OP isn’t taking holiday.)

They get away with it because they can.

people not being aware of their rights under the equality act, managers not being aware of their responsibilities under the equality act or managers who try to use threats of warnings/the sack to prevent people from kicking up a fuss.

Even with correct policies and EDI teams it’s still happening. It’s grim.

a true story: not nhs but a healthcare business that was heavily associated as being a huge supporter of cancer charities/survivors etc - someone who was off sick for 6mths for cancer treatment. - then after a couple months of being back she got flu - immune system was still a bit out of whack and they’d put her straight back customer facing - had to have a couple of weeks off

the area manager tried to tell the line manager that they had to put the employee through disciplinary and give her a final written warning due to unacceptable absence levels. Because of cancer!!!

The manager had some morals though and told the area manager point blank she wouldn’t do that and was threatened with her job so she stepped down from management. Not sure what happened to employee in the end but that’s the sort of shit disabled workers have to deal with.

Check your sick policy, they’ll definitely have something which covers this sort of scenario.

I’ve found the correct email for occupational health and also asked the specialist nurse if she knows of any guidelines. Still can’t find the HR policies. I am fully aware that the trust does not value its staff, despite what they claim.

Do you not have a searchable policy hub - keywords such as workplace adjustments
absence management policy special leave etc could all lead you to them.

do you have an EDI team you can contact or a disabled staff network group for support

Occupational health have sent me the policy and it turns out my manager is correct. Had a feeling she would be.

nope - Ask for your reasonable adjustments policy and treatments related to disability

or ask your GP to give you a sick/not fit for work note starting the day of the treatment

I reckon you've got a case under that second point, there is "less flexibility" for these appointments as they have to be at set times

@Whatsthatsheila agree that is still not correct with regards to a disability

The end paragraph “for health reasons arrangements need to be discussed with manager” makes me think they have a wholly inadequate equality policy

OP check out the Equality Act 2010. If yur condition meets the definition of disability under the Act, you have protected characteristics and your employer has to make reasonable adjustment. This would therefore be sick leave and not annual leave. The Act also encourages employers to disregard any reasonable sick leave connected to the declared disability for disciplinary purposes. You need to talk to HR and if you haven’t already declared a disability, then you need to do so formally.

None of this applies if you have a defined disability under the Equality Act 2010 and your absence is due to that disability. But you need to declare it and ask for reasonable adjustments.

If the OP is part time then expecting appointments on a day off when a full time employee wouldn’t be expected to make appointments in their time off, then it would be discriminating against a part timer.