To think this should be sick leave not annual leave?

[Toddlerteaplease]

I am having a new treatment for a chronic neurological condition. It’s two IV infusions 15 days apart, then 6 monthly after that. The first infusion fell on my days off. I told my manager that I’d need the day of the second infusion off. But apparently I either have to swap a shift or take it as annual leave. I can’t have it as sick leave as I’m not technically sick. (She is fully aware of the diagnosis!) I work in the NHS. Is this correct? I feel slightly aggrieved at having to use annual leave for something I have no choice over! And my sickness record is very good!

I get 2 days disability leace per year but could be up to 10 days disability leave depending on condition/symptoms. Does your empolyer offer this?

I also work for the NHS. This should absoutly be sick leave. As others have said go to HR to clarify.

Check the sickness and leave policies for your trust. The answer will be in there.
Would changing your shifts around work? I only work 3 days a week. So if the infusion was Thursday, I could arrange to work Monday- Wednesday, have the infusion Thursday and then I'd be on days off the rest of the week anyway. Obviously if you work Monday to Friday, that wouldn't be possible.

Infuriates me.

@Spacecowboys I could swap shifts but I’ve got no room to swap and it’s two weeks before Christmas. Everyone has plans.

It was a short notice appointment so couldn’t request it off in time.

I’ve had a look for the policy and can’t find it. So I’ve emailed occupational health.

I've been diagnosed with MS this year. My employer has been really supportive. I don't get absence triggers for my MS sickness.

I'm also a manager and things like this i tell ku team to just take them, as long as I know where they are, that's all good.

This is common but the minute you have the treatment you are then “sick” as you will not be able to work. it’s all bollox, the worse of corporate bollox to keep management happy and sick down by not actually pointing this out to people.
but once you have the treatment you are sick.

It’s hospital treatment, therefore not annual leave

My sickness record is probably the best on the ward. Apart from occasional flare ups I’m never off. Managed to work through this relapse as I could still walk reasonably well. They use there discretion about triggers.

You should always be in a trade union so you can be sure to have advice and representation during any dispute.
If you have advance warning then you’ll need to reach an agreement over what’s reasonable regarding your shifts as they’ve already been agreed; I’d expect sick leave for a planned procedure.
A warning: in our trust we are allowed one planned surgery on top of usual sick leave triggers. As you’re disabled your allowance before stage 1 sickness review should be increased / not unlimited - I wouldn’t expect much compassion.
Hospitals are struggling for staff yet expected to make redundancies / savings this year whilst improving turnover.

if the nhs were more compassionate and had the correct processes in place including supportive reasonable adjustments they’d have a much better staff retention rate from employees with Long term illnesses and disability.

one planned surgery — I hope the policy has been through an EDI team and that it therefore doesn’t apply to surgeries for disabilities.

Going back to triggers. Say someone with epilepsy & say the trust trigger is set at 3 absences. In 12 mths

the staff member has had 1x cold/flu absence and 2x seizures absence,

they then have another cold /flu absence come back to work too quickly burn out and have another seizure absence so 5 in total. 3x disability 2x non disability. Are you putting them on stage 1 management?

I’m nhs…I’ve done this many times…..always sick leave fully paid

It’s sick leave or special paid leave. No shift swapping where you are under pressure to be back in for the next shift. No annual leave or unpaid leave.

Reach out to OH. have you got reasonable adjustments in place? You should have. The onus is on your manager is to consider and make adjustments even if you think you don’t need them (eg such as sickness absence - it should be a given that anything relating to MS isn’t triggering absence management for short term frequent absences), but ideally in terms of adjustments you will have a good idea of what you need and a good OH team will document that in your letters and your manager should implement them.

to that end you should have a workplace adjustments document /health passport whatever it looks like. Lives in your staff file and follows you if you move wards etc so you don’t have to go through same process all the time.

ask your manager for all policies relating to sickness/absence/special leave / equality act and staff with disabilities. Study them read them understand them. Managers often don’t get them so you have to point out the obvious sometimes.

with any luck your trust will have an EDI team although they are sometimes as useful as a chocolate teapot but you never know - they could also help guide you to relevant policies.

are you in a union? If not please make sure you join one.

Sounds a lot like Ocreveus for MS, if that right? If so, I’m currently on that and all my infusions aren’t even sick leave, as I request the time off in advance. Its ‘authorised absence’

It’s ubliximitab. I have spoken to the matron who is above my manager and she is absolutely adamant it’s not sick leave as I’m not sick. 🙄 (I did point out that I was very sick after just 2ml of the first dose!) Apparently time is allowed off for appointments, but you are expected to come back to work afterwards. Which obviously isn’t going to be possible. I don’t understand, because when I had Lemtrada ten years ago it was allowed as sick leave. I don’t currently have any adjustments in place as I don’t need them. I have been seeing a neuro OT about managing work, due to the last relapse. So I’ll contact her. I’m happy to arrange other appointments for days off in future. It’s what I’ve always done. It’s just this one that’s an issue.

Yes I’m in the RCN, but could t tell you who the rep is.

but you do need them - you need them for appts.

your matron sounds like a prick.

@Whatsthatsheilashes lovely. She was my Maher until 2 weeks ago. She’s always been very supportive. So I’m surprised by this.

Then go back and ask her for all policies relating to absence /sick leave /long term health conditions etc

. Remind her your treatment is disability related and in line with the equality act you don’t need to take it as annual leave as that would be classed as disadvantaging you under eq act which is discrimination.

and that you want a full OH referral followed by formal documentation of adjustments.

if she’s lovely - she’ll understand

So you absolutely do need a well being plan with adjustments in place then ….I was taking around 5 weeks off a year for treatments….none of it was recorded as sick….I’m nhs

Your matron is using some bizarre (albeit not uncommon) logic, if it's not sick leave because your not sick, how does she think it becomes annual leave, as it's not a holiday?
I agree it likely won't be 'standard' sick leave (not least because planned time off for medical appointments doesn't count against you in the same way as unplanned sickness for absence policy) but there is usually something in place regarding it, it definitely shouldn't be annual leave. Best practice would be that you have the option to have if paid, adjustments could be that you have to make up the time. It shouldn't impact on your AL though.

Whilst I agree that there is a lack of common sense in telling you that you need to return to work after an appointment that will leave you unfit for work, please don't say what this poster has suggested about the Equality Act.

"Remind her your treatment is disability related and in line with the equality act you don’t need to take it as annual leave as that would be classed as disadvantaging you under eq act which is discrimination."

This is just not true and it will undermine your position if you're throwing around incorrect law in such a threatening way.

Not being facetious but it is true, surely? MS is a, long-term neurological disability that's protected under the Equality Act. I'm not challenging you to have a go, but to understand by the way