Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY!

[Iamwhoiamwhoareyou]

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

This thread is frying my brain for an average Tuesday. Do the children whether trans, female, male, furries, non binary, or whatever other identity they choose… do they even care about all of this? Or do they just want to be part of a hobby they enjoy?

As always, this thread has descended into what about ism. "But wont someone think of the boys?"

NO! We wont. We have had thousands of fucking years of that and WE ARE SICK OF IT!

Just leave us alone and we will leave you alone! If you want access to our safe single sex space TOUGH SHIT WE DONT WANT YOU THERE!! I will not bring up my daughters in the same bullshit that I (1970's child) and my female forebears were brought up with....man first, woman second if she is lucky. Fuck that shit. We worked too hard for this to not fight to the death to keep it.

I say this as the mother of sons and daughters, my sons have been brought up to understand their male privilege and I hope that they keep that understanding.

Yes: it is legally defined.

Scouts elected to change it’s constitution to include youth members of both sexes; GGUK’s constitution states its aim is to support girls and membership is confined to girls. The constitution is a legally binding document. The supreme Court has, for those doubting basic biology, that for the purposes of law a girl/woman is a biological human female and a boy/man is a biological human male.

Scouts is now legally required to allow children of both sexes to join and may not exclude any child on the basis of their sex.

GGUK is a single sex organisation and under law may only permit biological human females to join. They may may identify as non-binary or even ‘male’ but so long as they are biological females, they - and no biological males, no matter how loudly their parents whine - may join and enjoy the activities and protections offered.

It really isn’t in the least bit complicated.

My daughter is heartbroken. It's the first time she has felt that real discrimination for who she is. She is a proud trans girl - but also just wants to fit in. More than anything, she just loves going to brownies with her friends, her sister and her mum - who up to now has volunteered to help out in sessions. We felt confident enlisting her because of the Trans Inclusive Policy. A light has gone out in my child today. For an organisation based on spreading kindness, this decision feels very far from "kind".

They joined a single sex organisation. If they want to be in a mixed sex organisation there are plenty others to choose from.

There are some trans people on YouTube who are very open about understanding that they are male/female and are not trying to replace the struggles and voices of women.

A trans person described transitioning as being on one bank of the river and longing to be on the other, but accepting once they try and cross the river, that is where they will always be and for some people that is preferable to them. It helped me understand a bit more about what it is like to transition and why someone people are trying to pull the bank into the river as a way of giving themself the illusion they made it to the otherside.

I think to transition into a peaceful person "just living their life" you would have to have an incredible amount of emotional maturity. I theorise this is the reason that this debate has become incredibly toxic, as to get that level of emotional maturity takes years and years of therapy and that has been undermined by the idea of Self-ID.

I’m truly so sorry for your daughter.

The decision is based on the legality of the GG charitable status. Single sex means just that. Encourage your child to join a mixed sex organisation.

Mate, I'm 37 and people understood homosexuality fine well in the 90s/00s. There were a few gay/bi kids at my school (me included.)

I know right?! Grass is just so last season 😂😂😂

It means that there is an organisation that males who struggle with being male, have a place to participate in non-curricular activites with other children and they don't really have to chose one or the other.

They are yet to publish the advice - but I suspect my daughter wouldn't be allowed to go up to Guides now. She already feels so sad about not being allowed into the group that she loves.

Sorry but your son had no right to enter a female only space. As a woman, can't you understand that girls need a space free of males (however they identify)? One would think as a woman you would know this. He clearly has been given the impression by you that womens female only spaces are his to take. You're doing him a disservice making him feel so entitled to what isn't his. He could have joined the Scouts.

But did they choose for that reason or did they just choose a hobby that they had heard about and want to be the same as their mates? My kids couldn’t give a tosh who goes to their hobbies so long as they get to go and have a good time. It’s parents that are choosing these things not the kids.

Kindness means being honest with your child. You cannot bend the world to fit. Girls need space to themselves sometimes.

is your child male? I assume so. If they’re a male, there are many mixed sex organisations they can join. Girl guides is for girls, not boys. Have you had the discussion with your child that they can never ever be a girl/woman if they’re born male?

I think you know exactly what I mean.

This baffles me on Mumsnet. Why is the majority opinion that someone who presents as female but was born male cannot be in the ladies bathroom, but someone with facial hair and men’s clothes is fine?

You all beat me to it with the grass jokes 😂😂

Perhaps you should gently explain the reasons behind this. It’s not discrimination. Your child, being of the male sex, doesn’t qualify for GG - because it is a single sex organisation for female people only. I’m sorry you were both misled.

This is no different than an Over 18s club ‘discriminating’ against a 16 yr old.

It might have started like that if they joined at 4 with Rainbows but pretty sure Guides (10+), Rangers (14+) and most leaders (and even some brownies (7-10) specifically join or stay involved because it’s a female only space.

If the person with facial hair and wearing mens clothes is female then the women's toilets are the right place for them

It's the worst when parents enable their male child to think they can just take what they want that doesn't belong to them, and to heck with the needs and rights of girls. The parents who enable this really should be held to account. Thankfully there are parents on here with children who claim to be trans and the parents will not enable it or go along with it.

Well you're the one who told him he could be a girl. His pain and hurt is on you. No one else. You have to deal with that. I hope your child manages to forgive you one day.

Are you a bit dim? That "someone with facial hair and men's clothes" you refer to is female.

How are you going to speak to your child about it?

Your child is male, that isn't going to change. The law in the UK means that there is no right for your child to enter any single-sex female spaces.

Are you going to tell your child that being male is who they really are, even if they prefer all the stuff that is more typically associated with being a girl and that it is important that girls have a space where they don't have to deal with people bigger and stronger than them.

Or are you going to tell your child that they have been excluded because the world hates trans people?