Page 4 | Working families £18k worse off than benefits claimants after budget

NOTANUM · 01/12/2025 08:03

ForWildCyanTiger · 01/12/2025 04:31

Went so well when Liz truss did her budget. I must have missed the part where RR crashed the markets (spoiler alert they reacted quite well)

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Liz Truss’s own party got her out pretty sharpish!
Can’t see that here as RR has Kier Starmer over a barrel with her tears in the Commons and threats about being treated badly for being a woman.

HopSpringsEternal · 01/12/2025 08:06

Screamingabdabz · 30/11/2025 23:23

We’ll all be worse off because there is no strategy for growth or investment or business.

When everyone loses their jobs because Labour’s moronic tax-anything-that-moves policy means that businesses go down the pan or start laying people off, it might eventually dawn on them where all the money for generous benefits and the NHS etc actually originates from. Yes evil capitalism.

So it would make sense to make us a prosperous trading nation. But no. This is Labour. Spend spend spend. Trillions and billions in more debt to potentially hostile nations who have us by the short and curlies.

Well the real reason isn't Labour it was 15 years of mismanagement by the Tories and Brexit but let's not bring that up.
I'm not loving Labour but theh aren't as bad as the last lot.

dizzydizzydizzy · 01/12/2025 08:12

Penguinsandspaniels · 01/12/2025 05:28

I disagree about it being hard

ex dh managed to get it as doesn’t have a pancreas due to his constant drinking

He takes tablets to digest food and is fine as long as does that and leads a normal life

he could get a job - he’s quite capable of working and was working till he decided to stop and go on uc - but won’t /doesn’t have to now as gets lcwra

i don’t know if they will reassess. I hope they do

which also means he gets his full rent paid for him and only has to give me £27.50 a month cms out of his £800 he gets on top of his rent

he could get a job and think work 16hrs a week and still get lcwra but he doesn’t want to

if he didn’t get lcwra he would have had to find a job /uc make him go for 2w interviews

maybe he got ‘lucky’ and some struggle to get it. He didn’t

I’m sure there are many who deserve it but don’t get it so it irks he did and due to his own fault

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I am amazed to hear this. I get it. I sent about 200 pages of medical evidence, such as doctors letters and letters of support from employers and others. I also had to spend hours over the course of several weeks filling out a form - I write several 1000 words - and then I had to attend a gruelling health assessment which took almost 2 hours. It is a very very thorough and lengthy process. Every claim you make has to be backed up by mountains of evidence. PIP is similar.

EINSEINSNULL · 01/12/2025 08:23

'Benefits claimants' aren't all claiming for the same reasons or awarded the same amounts.

ApplebyArrows · 01/12/2025 08:33

Are there no workhouses??

Marshmallow4545 · 01/12/2025 08:36

ApplebyArrows · 01/12/2025 08:33

Are there no workhouses??

It's weird that workhouses are always brought up in these conversations when literally nobody has suggested that they are reintroduced. Once could almost think it's a massive red herring to divert away from the fact that lots of people currently doing nothing productive whatsoever could be doing more.

Kirbert2 · 01/12/2025 08:37

Pandersmum · 01/12/2025 07:28

My family member isn’t doing anything ‘illegal’ - they are just using the current system to their maximum advantage.

This is why the current benefits system needs a major overhaul.

People on MN often say there is no fraud in the system - but there is plenty of people gaming the system, and people really don’t like to accept that.

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I don't think I've seen anyone on MN say that there's no fraud in the system. Of course there is but at the same time, there is also ignorance as to how it works including DLA.

You said yourself that you don't know the ins and outs of how it works.

Amberlynnswashcloth · 01/12/2025 08:43

Frequency · 01/12/2025 00:58

According to that, to get £45k in benefits, you need to be disabled and be raising five disabled children and paying rent of over £15k p/a.

If a disabled adult can manage to care for five disabled children alone, they deserve every penny of that £45k. Plus, imagine how much it would cost the state to care for five disabled children if this mythical woman decided it was too much for her. It would be a fuck tonne more than £45k p/a. Despite being imaginary, she is saving the state a fortune.

I actually knew a family like this and the house was basically a mini nursing home. Kinder to the (adult) children to keep them all together and easier to get care coming in rather than find placements for them all with complex needs. At one point I believe they had 14 workers coming in a day so obviously this costs a fortune and rent would have been high owing to the need for space, level access, hoists etc. Obviously the benefits bill would be colossal but all going towards maintaining a basic level of existence for people with no other options. I don't begrudge them a penny.

TwoMintsLoose · 01/12/2025 09:07

Interesting maths there. My best friend is a single mum solely on benefits with 4 kids, she gets £1200 a month UC + child benefit. That’s for rent, bills, food, clothes, everything.
So I don’t see how someone working can be 18k worse off - excluding child benefit which everyone gets unless earning silly money, her yearly ‘income’ is only £14,400.

Pandersmum · 01/12/2025 09:11

Kirbert2 · 01/12/2025 08:37

I don't think I've seen anyone on MN say that there's no fraud in the system. Of course there is but at the same time, there is also ignorance as to how it works including DLA.

You said yourself that you don't know the ins and outs of how it works.

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I don’t know the system you are correct.
But the £1800 per month my family member receives via UC each month is perfectly legal in response to the answers she has given them on her forms, tells me why the current benefits system is not fit for purpose.

They will be many people who are honest and do not get the necessary support.

I truly hope there will be significant benefits reform and those who really need support get more.

JamesClyman · 01/12/2025 09:14

ANY statement from a body chaired by Ian Duncan Smith, reported in the Daily Mail, is automatically suspect.

I am very, very doubtful about this £18K figure (to put it politely).

YABU.

DaphneduM · 01/12/2025 09:16

Marshmallow4545 · 01/12/2025 08:36

It's weird that workhouses are always brought up in these conversations when literally nobody has suggested that they are reintroduced. Once could almost think it's a massive red herring to divert away from the fact that lots of people currently doing nothing productive whatsoever could be doing more.

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It's irony!!!! 'Are there no workhouses?' is a quote from A Christmas Carol spoken by Scrooge.

Kirbert2 · 01/12/2025 09:17

Pandersmum · 01/12/2025 09:11

I don’t know the system you are correct.
But the £1800 per month my family member receives via UC each month is perfectly legal in response to the answers she has given them on her forms, tells me why the current benefits system is not fit for purpose.

They will be many people who are honest and do not get the necessary support.

I truly hope there will be significant benefits reform and those who really need support get more.

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You need more than just answers on forms.

Greenwitchart · 01/12/2025 09:19

Your argument is flawed from the start because you are ignoring the fact that 38% of people who claim UC are working...

Maybe you should ask why employers get away with paying low wages to the point where people have to claim benefits to survive.

Somersetbaker · 01/12/2025 09:39

Has the Fail or the Torygraph managed to find one of these mythical families, or is just some kid on work experience adding up all the possible things that could be claimed. Meanwhile the people, who lap this shit up, are quite happy to enable tradesmen to evade tax by paying cash in hand.

dizzydizzydizzy · 01/12/2025 09:46

Penguinsandspaniels · 01/12/2025 05:28

I disagree about it being hard

ex dh managed to get it as doesn’t have a pancreas due to his constant drinking

He takes tablets to digest food and is fine as long as does that and leads a normal life

he could get a job - he’s quite capable of working and was working till he decided to stop and go on uc - but won’t /doesn’t have to now as gets lcwra

i don’t know if they will reassess. I hope they do

which also means he gets his full rent paid for him and only has to give me £27.50 a month cms out of his £800 he gets on top of his rent

he could get a job and think work 16hrs a week and still get lcwra but he doesn’t want to

if he didn’t get lcwra he would have had to find a job /uc make him go for 2w interviews

maybe he got ‘lucky’ and some struggle to get it. He didn’t

I’m sure there are many who deserve it but don’t get it so it irks he did and due to his own fault

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I forgot to say yes it does get reviewed, typically every 2 or 3 years. My claim is for ME/CFS and autism. Neither of which I am likely to recover from but I still have to keep going through the whole tedious process repeatedly. I get it of course that iy needs to be rigourous. If you think your exDH has claimed fraudulently, report him:
www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

Penguinsandspaniels · 01/12/2025 10:10

dizzydizzydizzy · 01/12/2025 08:12

I am amazed to hear this. I get it. I sent about 200 pages of medical evidence, such as doctors letters and letters of support from employers and others. I also had to spend hours over the course of several weeks filling out a form - I write several 1000 words - and then I had to attend a gruelling health assessment which took almost 2 hours. It is a very very thorough and lengthy process. Every claim you make has to be backed up by mountains of evidence. PIP is similar.

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Honestly I don’t know how he got it. But he does

it pisses me off so much as it’s his own doing - and still drinks now using the extra £416 he gets

I have no issue with people getting lwcra who need it. Sounds like you do and I’m glad you get it

he has applied for pip 3/4 times now and always been denied which I’m thankful for as it will be extra money for him to drink with

Ihatetomatoes · 01/12/2025 10:11

HelenaWaiting · 30/11/2025 23:45

Would you like me to fetch you some water? Your metaphorical pants are on fire.

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😂lots of frothing on here, after they've read the DM or Sun (and any right wing press) stories to create hatred for anyone who receives benefits and perceived as unworthy.

Meanwhile, ignoring last government paying billionaires multiple millions in dodgy contract deals (nothing to see there).

Katemax82 · 01/12/2025 10:11

18k?

EasternStandard · 01/12/2025 10:17

ForWildCyanTiger · 01/12/2025 04:31

Went so well when Liz truss did her budget. I must have missed the part where RR crashed the markets (spoiler alert they reacted quite well)

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Markets don’t vote people do and Labour keep dropping support. They don’t have many left thinking they’re doing well.

Marshmallow4545 · 01/12/2025 10:18

Ihatetomatoes · 01/12/2025 10:11

😂lots of frothing on here, after they've read the DM or Sun (and any right wing press) stories to create hatred for anyone who receives benefits and perceived as unworthy.

Meanwhile, ignoring last government paying billionaires multiple millions in dodgy contract deals (nothing to see there).

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Lots of minimisation and attempts to divert discourse after you've read some left wing stories.

See how you are part of the polarisation and not actually above it?

Bumblebee72 · 01/12/2025 10:36

They need to stop paying benefits by bank transfer and get people to collect them from job centre. That would add a test of whether people really needed them or not. I bet the bill would fall massively.

Frequency · 01/12/2025 10:40

Marshmallow4545 · 01/12/2025 07:12

I think we need to be careful about casting landlords as the bad guys here. Housing is expensive. Contrary to popular belief, social housing is subsidised because the cost of capital is rarely accounted for. Basically if you have a mortgage or even if you own the property fully, there will be interest to be paid or you could utilise the money elsewhere and earn interest.

You have three types of landlords.

Those that own their properties outright. the average property is worth £270k. If you put £270k in the bank right now earning 4.5% then you could get £12k back for absolutely nothing. You would have no landlord commitments, no safety obligations, no wear and tear or maintenance to fund. There would be no concerns about having vacant periods or tenants trashing the house. In many areas being a landlord would be an objectively bad decision when you could get the same and sometimes more money from doing nothing.

Those on interest only mortgages. Literally use the rent payments to service the debts. The tenants aren't buying the landlord's house but covering the costs of ownership. The idea is that the house will eventually go up in value and the landlord will make money on its sale.

Landlords with repayment mortgages. Very few landlords in the current environment are going to be able to find a repayment BTL mortgage at any scale.

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So, LL are buying up properties to rent out out of the goodness of their own hearts, and there is no benefit at all other than giving them a warm fuzzy feeling?

Namechangedconfession · 01/12/2025 10:41

Kirbert2 · 30/11/2025 23:19

Plenty of families on UC are also working families.

Only 34% of UC claimants work (this includes full and part time). People on UC who don’t work or work very part time and have 3+ children are on more money than me after tax. 66% are not in employment.

firstofallimadelight · 01/12/2025 10:49

shoelances · 30/11/2025 23:14

This is madness. Can the last taxpayer in the UK please close the door behind them.

www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/households-on-handouts-to-be-18-000-better-off-than-families-on-modest-wages/ar-AA1RqxlQ

Did you read the article? It’s talking about a disabled parent unable to work with several disabled children. The majority of that amount they would have got last week too.
it’s the one random situation where a claim could be so high because pip and dla are not (and have never been) means tested.
Bore off with your ablest clickbait.