Should I be nicer to my highly depressed mum?

[Sprinklesandsprinkles]

So I'll outline this as factually and as quickly as I can!

I grew up with DM as a single parent with 2DSis. We relied on benefits with her sometimes working school hours. I had a great childhood, she did everything she could for us and I was always on her side. If she had a falling out etc I'd agree how terrible of them, of course you've done nothing wrong.

She had a neglectful childhood, got sent to a Welsh speaking school in year 9 when she barely spoke it and didn't get many qualifications. I always believed that this held her back and was unfair, of course she couldn't ever have a 'career' job. The possibility of that ended when she got sent to that school and got pregnant at 19.

There was a point where not having computer skills was holding back her from being able to have entry level jobs, there was an IT course free at the college but she said it was really hard to get on with big waiting lists. Fair enough I believe that, but looking back she never got on to it, surely she could have kept waiting and trying and trying and done it eventually?

If me or one of my sisters need something she will move heaven and earth to support us and get access to it. In recent years her health (physically and mentally) has plummeted and it's seen very little of her advocating for herself. At first I was so supportive but gradually it's really angered how helpless she's behaving.

If I ask her how an appointment was or how things are going with waiting lists she says she can't remember and acts absolutely unable to do any chasing at all. On the other hand she does any customer surveys she's asked to do and some recent customer service situations she has are spending 40 minutes on the phone to Argos to connect her Nectar card to her account. And a mix of 5 visits and phonecalls to Argos to sort out a replacement for a scratched shelving unit she got for her storage room. There's always something she's sorting out along these lines.

I used to call her in the car all the time to chat, but she got anxious I'd crash on the phone so that stopped. Gradually our contact has lowered. I don't live close to her but do my best to visit monthly. She lives close to my DSis's. We all have kids and have a very active WhatsApp group where we share lots of photos and videos.

In the summer me and my mum ended up having a very rare argument when I was visiting. I ended up saying you need to sort yourself out and she told me I'm not a kind person (she's said this a few times now). Nowadays I don't agree with all of her opinions and she thinks that I'm a bad person because of it and I've 'changed'. I just think I've grown up and realised your DM isn't right about everything in the world, adults get their own views.

After the argument we were texting and she said a few times "end of relationship" and "I'll just see the children and not ppeak with you". I couldn't believe she was cutting me off and it really switched something off inside me with our relationship. She's since tried to back pedal and said that she meant because I don't like her I obviously don't want a relationship with her.

As part of all this I sent a message with a link about victim complex and tried to kindly say I think this applies to you, have a read and see what you think. I think because you've had a bad time you see yourself as helpless but there really is stuff you can be doing to help yourself and it's so important you push for this mentally health/counselling support.

This landed extremely badly and lead to us not having contact for a couple of months. She wouldn't use ANY WhatsApp in this time so was isolated from seeing my kids and family news. I've gradually got her back into the group and we are ok on person but that's all the contact we have bar a very scarce video call for my kids.

I feel so done with her. The old DM I had doesn't exist any more. She says to my DSis that I don't phone her anymore, but I have a few times and she hasn't called me once. Is it ok for me to feel like this about her and maintain the low contact or should I be sucking it up and pushing for a better relationship because I know she's not well?

As part of all this I sent a message with a link about victim complex and tried to kindly say I think this applies to you,

There was nothing kind about that tbh.

Telling someone with depression they ‘need to sort themselves out’ is also hideously unkind. You wouldn’t tell someone with a broken leg to ‘just walk it off’.

It sounds as if she needs some support, is she getting any treatment/medication?
Does she regularly meet friends or is she quite isolated?

It would be kinder to encourage her to seek some support in groups/attend some mobility classes to keep physically healthy and active.

Its very hard, when suffering depression/anxiety to do things for yourself, everything feels overwhelming and you can become paralysed with fear, so it’s sometimes easier to not do things.

What age is she? Technology has moved on an awful lot and a lot of older people feel they are too incapable to learn now. (The frustration of setting up DMs TV or iPhone is very real, but this is the woman who taught me to use a spoon fgs, I’m hardly going to not help).

At the very least I would encourage her to see the GP and ask for blood tests, lots of easily treatable issues can cause anxiety & depression. Thyroid issues, low B12/folate, low ferritin, low Vitamin D etc,

I understand that my message was a bit blunt about the victim complex. But I honestly worded it so carefully and showed some friends and my DH who said I'd don't a good job. She's been on the waiting list for mental health support for a couple of years, a year ago I said enough is enough let's pay for you to have it privately. She sees a mental health nurse who apparently said we shouldn't because that would take her off the NHS, to be honest I'm very unsure about whether to believe this.

She has numerous issues and had had every test going. She's been left hanging and on wait lists without much help. She's in bad pain constantly but only takes paracetamol. She took stronger stuff years ago before she was this declined but won't anymore. She didn't like how it made her head feel fuzzy and she couldn't drive on them but she doesn't drive anymore.

She's 60, so not an old DM! She's pretty isolated, she doesn't have a history of maintaining friendships but she does have 1 friend who she sees regularly.

I know I probably sound cold but I've honestly been her cheerleader for my whole life. It's just these last couple of years I've found increasingly difficult to watch from the sidelines

Adhd/autism?

I don't think so! I think she quite possibly has OCD but no neurodivergence. She washed her groceries and would touch anything like a door before it was COVID!

It sounds like she has very low self esteem, the bit about moving mountains for others but not for herself makes me think this. I understand your frustration but really she needs support and encouragement and showing msg you’re sending to your Mother to your friends is really off imo. Go and visit and ask her how she is and what’s really going on for her. About going private would counselling take her off the NHS list? Depending on when she is likely to reach the top of the list at this stage sounds like she needs help now. All the best.

I'm afraid that at 60, she's not likely to change and you pushing her to 'sort herself out' isn't going to help. To be honest, sending her an article about victim complex is never going to go over well, no matter how carefully you word it.

Can you just accept her as she is and maintain fairly low contact? Don't offer unsolicited advice, nod along and say 'that sounds difficult' when she complains about anything. It's not your job to help her sort her life out - you're her daughter not her parent. Accepting that you have no control over what she does and that you can decide how much time you're willing to allocate to her is freeing. We only have agency over ourselves.

It is really unkind to send her stuff about victim complex no matter how you worded it. That was never going to land well.

you also mention that she is in constant pain. Does she have physical health issues? Constant pain over long periods of time often does lead to anxiety and depression.

with respect to the IT, some people really just can’t pick it up. My mum is one of them. It just goes out of her head. She never worked much with computers (was a teacher) and now really struggles with them. It’s not always as simple as just fo a course.

I think you could do with an empathy transplant @Sprinklesandsprinkles

Don't forget that if she has an autoimmune disease undiagnosed, the uncontrolled inflammation affects mood entirely separately to any depression or pain - and being given antidepressants or put onto a waiting list for talking therapy will do absolutely zero to reduce inflammation causing incredibly low mood (steroids, though, they're great - you can be near to tears before the needle goes in but like a sunny day on a beach two hours later - getting onto biologics or DMARDs stops you ever feeling like that again, plus they reduce pain AND actually having a diagnosis and treatment finally puts paid to the usual bollocks about how as you're female and in pain, you must be wrong in the head and imagining the pain).

I was generally with you, as I have a similar DM, but when you said you sent her the message with a link to an article about victim complex I cringed. That was unkind and unhelpful and you probably need to apologise for that.

The piece of wisdom I can share is that you need to realise you can't change her. You can't improve her. You can't save her. You can't control her. You can only do all of those things for yourself. That will be the best starting point to rebuild your relationship from. You can be supportive without being responsible for her.

It sounds like I probably do need to apologise for the victim complex thing going from these replies. I thought we have literally pandered to her over all this time and she's degraded to where she is, so maybe acting being honest with her could spark something in her to try and pick herself up. I honestly didn't mean any malice by it. I'm no trained professional but from my understanding she literally ticks the boxes and I thought if she could realise it might apply to her then she'll realise that she feels the world is against her because of the past but that doesn't write her destiny. And I hoped she's think yes I do need to pay for this support (or let us pay but she has the money to find it too.)

I mentioned the IT course to show a history of her not seeming to help herself. Had me or a DSis needed the course she absolutely would have got us on it.

She has low self esteem absolutely and a range or physical problems. I don't blame her at all for being depressed in her situation and how sheis suffering. But I can't stay smiley and calm while watching her stew in this situation anymore.

I also suspect that she is anorexic or whether or not it's on purpose- she's making herself unwell with her food intake. She's very underweight now and has basically the most health diet possible which is extremely low in calories and she weighs out every gram. I struggle to watch her eat peas, sweetcorn and a cold can of soup and pretend that she's having a nutritional feast.

I've just explained in my last post my thinking behind the link.

Thank you for the words of wisdom. How do you keep yourself calm while nodding and smiling when you can see all of her issues? I did it for a few years but just struggle now

Yes,you need to be a lot kinder.

It’s really easy to see another person’s issues from the outside.

she probably gets fed up with you constantly going on about X or Y but not doing anything about it.

if she were to start sending you articles about how you are (eg) a narcissist it wouldn’t be an alarm call for you you’d just think she was unkind.

are you aware of your own weaknesses and deficiencies?

you don’t have to spend time with her. You don’t have to listen to her. But she is another adult and all adults have weaknesses and things that annoy other people.

you might be better off thinking about how you can make the time you spend with her more enjoyable

I get in the car afterwards and shout 'FUCK'S SAKE' as I'm driving off, listen to some very shouty music and have a glass of wine when I get home whilst reminding myself it's not mine to fix. I'm not perfect, but it's lots easier to deal with than when I tried to solve every issue, help her to see where she is going wrong, etc.

I do think you've handled this badly and were unkind. I have a relative similar to this, almost certainly has undiagnosed adhd. They have very low self esteem, are sensitive to rejection, very loving and very kind, can move mountains for others. Their problems with executive dysfunction and low self esteem makes it very difficult to do the same for themselves.

They've also had a pretty hard life with one thing after another and I can see in their 60s they're just worn out fighting and struggling. Without the same support they've given others, they can't find a way through.

Add in depression and you have someone who has never really benefited from seeing positive results because they've always been left to flounder.

It is really frustrating to see but the trick is positive reinforcement and encouragement. Negative input will only ever have the opposite effect.

OP it's obvious that you love and care for your mum which is why you find this so frustrating. If you didn't care, you'd just walk away. I think you are trying your best and we all get things wrong sometimes so don't beat yourself up about the victim complex message. Just tell your mum you see that you got it wrong and apologise. Tell her that because you love her it's hard seeing her struggling. Then try and take a big step back and remember that you can't control what she does, you are only in control of your own response. It's hard, especially when you're the kind of person who wants to go in all guns blazing and sort her life out (I know, I'm the same!) but accepting that people will make their own choices will free you. You can spend less time with her and prioritise your own life 💐

I sure do have weaknesses and deficiencies, I really honestly know I'm not perfect. Except apparently my DM, I can honestly say I don't think she's ever believed that she's done a single thing wrong or has any flaws. Victim complex?!?

I don't nag her at all. She'll tell me stories about complex and ongoing customers services situations and every few months of I ask oh how's that referral going? She's been absolutely clueless and doesn't want to call anywhere to ask

apparently my DM, I can honestly say I don't think she's ever believed that she's done a single thing wrong or has any flaws. Victim complex?!?

I know I'm responding with an adhd bias and you've said you don't believe she's ND, but if she has always tried hard to do the right thing and is very sensitive to criticism then this could be why she feels like this.

Thank you for your kind message @Endofyear

@DuchessDandelion so it seems as if you are right. Because some direct honestly hasn't been good. But what about when you're so kind, understanding, give them the time and attention they need, and they're still on a huge downward spiral.

6 years ago she was up mountains every day walking for hours and now she can't sit on a chair if it doesn't have a cushion, she's gaunt, super sensitive, in pain etc and living off raw vegetables and paracetamol. We and her have the money for private mental support but she won't do it

This is very interesting! More reason for her to see a proper mental professional...

So OP she was a good and loving mum but you suddenly had a realisation that it would have been easier to have years ago - that she is in some ways very fallible? And now you are angry with her because she could be healthier and it’s hard to see her like that.

I think that is a fairly positive summary. Would you be ok to be done with her? No, because you have yet more stages to come yet and acceptance of her reality and your feelings can coexist without any mutual harm.

I think you have been lacking in care. I think it could be interpreted - and probably would be by someone with lower self esteem - to be very unpleasant.

I would suggest you get some talking therapy time to have your feelings heard - it’s probably she won’t ever be able to do this - and to help you find a model of relationship that is happier and more life affirming for you both. You do need to do huge work in your u understanding of poor mental health. Not being proactive medically while managing Nectar cards is fairly typical.

Audhd here and same

Waiting list for stuff like arthritis are horrendous mine was 4 years. I wouldn't take stronger pain meds as they are addictive and after awhile they have reduced effect so you need more.
She's right about going private taking you off of lists.
You don't seem to understand pain, depression or aging.

There's a new generation of young adults that dont respect their mothers at all and judge them harshly, saying 'why did you make this decision, you could've done this instead'.

Your mum was in a shit situation but managed to keep herself together for you. She loves you and has treated you well.

There are many women in your mums situation who have turned to drugs and prostituion, alcohol, or simply begged useless man after useless man to be a step dad to her kids.

Your mum sounds exhausted from her life of parenting three kids alone. Unless you have survived those exact circumstances, you have no business labelling her as being helpless now she is older, and being done with her. Find your dad then, if shes so rubbish.

Yabu