Should I be nicer to my highly depressed mum?

[Sprinklesandsprinkles]

So I'll outline this as factually and as quickly as I can!

I grew up with DM as a single parent with 2DSis. We relied on benefits with her sometimes working school hours. I had a great childhood, she did everything she could for us and I was always on her side. If she had a falling out etc I'd agree how terrible of them, of course you've done nothing wrong.

She had a neglectful childhood, got sent to a Welsh speaking school in year 9 when she barely spoke it and didn't get many qualifications. I always believed that this held her back and was unfair, of course she couldn't ever have a 'career' job. The possibility of that ended when she got sent to that school and got pregnant at 19.

There was a point where not having computer skills was holding back her from being able to have entry level jobs, there was an IT course free at the college but she said it was really hard to get on with big waiting lists. Fair enough I believe that, but looking back she never got on to it, surely she could have kept waiting and trying and trying and done it eventually?

If me or one of my sisters need something she will move heaven and earth to support us and get access to it. In recent years her health (physically and mentally) has plummeted and it's seen very little of her advocating for herself. At first I was so supportive but gradually it's really angered how helpless she's behaving.

If I ask her how an appointment was or how things are going with waiting lists she says she can't remember and acts absolutely unable to do any chasing at all. On the other hand she does any customer surveys she's asked to do and some recent customer service situations she has are spending 40 minutes on the phone to Argos to connect her Nectar card to her account. And a mix of 5 visits and phonecalls to Argos to sort out a replacement for a scratched shelving unit she got for her storage room. There's always something she's sorting out along these lines.

I used to call her in the car all the time to chat, but she got anxious I'd crash on the phone so that stopped. Gradually our contact has lowered. I don't live close to her but do my best to visit monthly. She lives close to my DSis's. We all have kids and have a very active WhatsApp group where we share lots of photos and videos.

In the summer me and my mum ended up having a very rare argument when I was visiting. I ended up saying you need to sort yourself out and she told me I'm not a kind person (she's said this a few times now). Nowadays I don't agree with all of her opinions and she thinks that I'm a bad person because of it and I've 'changed'. I just think I've grown up and realised your DM isn't right about everything in the world, adults get their own views.

After the argument we were texting and she said a few times "end of relationship" and "I'll just see the children and not ppeak with you". I couldn't believe she was cutting me off and it really switched something off inside me with our relationship. She's since tried to back pedal and said that she meant because I don't like her I obviously don't want a relationship with her.

As part of all this I sent a message with a link about victim complex and tried to kindly say I think this applies to you, have a read and see what you think. I think because you've had a bad time you see yourself as helpless but there really is stuff you can be doing to help yourself and it's so important you push for this mentally health/counselling support.

This landed extremely badly and lead to us not having contact for a couple of months. She wouldn't use ANY WhatsApp in this time so was isolated from seeing my kids and family news. I've gradually got her back into the group and we are ok on person but that's all the contact we have bar a very scarce video call for my kids.

I feel so done with her. The old DM I had doesn't exist any more. She says to my DSis that I don't phone her anymore, but I have a few times and she hasn't called me once. Is it ok for me to feel like this about her and maintain the low contact or should I be sucking it up and pushing for a better relationship because I know she's not well?

I'll follow this up with a disclaimer that I'm in no way saying people with ASD aren't patient and caring

That's the thing about the bastard disease, though - it physically, chemically, biologically takes away that spark and no amount of psychological 'stuff' (ie, sessions, antidepressants) can fix the biochemical effects of inflammation. Reducing the inflammation works. Because it's a physical disease process, not a mental health one.

It affects healing and recovery times, makes injuries more likely, causes weight loss, could have progressed into also having coeliac disease (which carries a massive risk of stomach cancer - on top of the vastly increased risk of lymphoma she'd already have from untreated autoimmune disease), lactose intolerance, allergies, sensitivities (which could possibly explain why she's so restrictive and anxious around food) - because it's her immune system identifying her own body cells as invaders that must be destroyed.

You can't fix physical health by treating it as a mental illness.

@NeverDropYourMooncup thank you for this info. It's pretty scary because she's had lupus for the last 20ish years. She definitely has intolerances and knows that her diet works - but it is still kept low by her weighing and logging.

She can quite often avoid the trigger for her lupus and isn't currently taking medication for it. I can't honestly remember the reason why she doesn't take medication

You just answered your own question at the very end of your post. Yes - she is not well so please be kind to her and try not to be angry with her for not being the same as she used to be. She has probably lost confidence in herself.

You're not through this life yet op. Wait until you're older, in pain and feeling like shit because of knockbacks of whatever type. It can happen to anyone. It's nice to know that people are disposable when they malfunction though. Dealing with them is a bore and life is short. Only bother with the happy go lucky, cheerful types.

I think you should get therapy yourself, OP.

Think of it as the oxygen mask you need to put on first so you can then help her with hers.

Fwiw, she needs to go private with her physical ailments. Insisting in MH help for her so she can work up the enthusiasm to get on a four year waiting list for a ten minute appointment and instructions to take paracetamol and eat more is really not going to help.
Can you book her in and take her to her appointments?

In theory yes, but she does actually get the physical appointments through and my DSis goes with her. I have been to one appointment with her too. The main issue is she'll get a negative test result then it gets dropped for a while but the only thing she's in limbo with is the mental health.

With the mystery illness she's seen a few specialists who each cleared a possibility of it being an issues that they cover, we need a Dr House who can link all of the clues together and dug to the bottom of it but I don't think that exists?

You don’t sound very nice, OP.

Probably if she managed to get past the 'oh, you're depressed, dear' and actually get prescribed something, the side effects were too unpleasant and debilitating, as the cheaper medications almost all have a lot of these - like vomiting, constant nausea, susceptibility to severe infection, osteoporosis, liver damage - and then there's the way some consultants and GPs will ignore a previous diagnosis and decide as she's female and middleaged/older that it's all just in her head/menopause (even though the hormone changes in menopause can actually be a trigger for a lupus flare)/fibro so go away and don't come back - or deny that there are new, better tolerated, more effective medications/insist that she goes through years of negative side effects on the cheaper ones.

She might find it more useful if willing (and you are) if you could advocate for her in an appointment with a specialist. She may very well be fine with chasing up customer services for a set of shelves, but we're not talking about that, we're talking about her personal needs and systemic misogyny and ageism with the gatekeepers being socially 'respected' professionals. It is not acceptable that she is not accessing appropriate monitoring and medical care when frankly, even a cheap shot in the glute of a long-acting steroid would probably help her enormously immediately whilst better medications start to take effect over the following months. It might also improve her appetite (although she may have developed an ED due to her fears of food reactions in the process, it could also be a further presentation of her disease making it impossible to eat more).

I'm lucky. I've got the belligerence, confidence and knowledge to advocate for myself regarding my particular autoimmune disease(s). So I'm on a very good (and very, very expensive) medication and get access to podiatry, physiotherapy - but it took years of being talked down to, lied to and patronised, as well as having somebody who was supposed to care about me call me a victim instead of somebody who just needed treatment for autoimmune disease - to get to the last ten years of good treatment. Your mum sounds like a much nicer person than me - which is disadvantaging her.

You sound like you're fairly robust. You could do this with her if you want to - I think that it would be good for you to redirect your feelings of helplessness and frustration to help her deal with the life threatening disease, not push her into the neat little box the medical profession have tried to do; the one of it being mental illness.

@NeverDropYourMooncup thank you for all of this it's really helpful info. As far as I'm aware she hasn't been given any steroids, what sort of specialist should we be asking to see? We'll need to ask the GP for a referral to them? Supposedly her mental health nurse is dealing with her array of referrals etc but I'm more than happy to step in and push for her. I'm glad you've been able to advocate so well for yourself, I'm going to ask my mum if we can have a reset and I'll go back to how I have been with her before this year

In a nutshell she wasnt mothered and has seen it your job to mother her and now rightly so youve had enough and now shes punishing you and will continue to do so until you become her mother again, i agree with you, and i would too be very hurt by what she said, leave her to her games and say your children are not pawns in one of her games to be used against you,

I suspect your Mum's friend will always have fibromyalgia, however meditation will help her manage the pain better.

I've known a number of people with the condition, including my sister. Living with the constant pain affects every part of her life; her mental health (so depression and brain fog), trouble sleeping, lethargy, IBS, eye problems, lack of confidence and self-esteem - I could go on. It's a very complex condition to both diagnose and manage, and a lot of GPs simply don't have a good enough understanding of it. I suspect your DM may be doing an anti-inflammatory diet with the raw food thing, but she certainly needs a bit more self-care as this is vital in helping her to manage the problem.

Are there any fibro self-help groups in her area that she could go along to? Talking to other people who are in the same boat might be really helpful for her.

I would also suggest that, as she sounds pretty bad with it, she applies for PIP as she may be eligible for the Daily Living element (if she hasn't done so already) - this extra money could help her make some adaptations to her lifestyle, or pay for a private consultation.

I do understand how her lack of self-care might be frustrating for you to observe, but she does sound like she's actually not in a very good place right now.

Op you seem really judgemental. She’s had serious challenges in her life - her education was highjacked ( which likely severely impacted her confidence in learning). She has had poor mental health and physical issues too. Yet she’s managed to move heaven and earth to make sure you and your sister were looked after, and you had what you needed.
Do you think, just maybe, that all this takes a toll on someone’s energy reserves, and she has prioritised her children over herself?
You sound deeply selfish and lacking in empathy

My mother has a “victim” mindset. It was a siren song that caught us both off guard back in the 80s. We both have ADHD. Me diagnosed, but no question over which parent passed the genes on.

I shunted my locus of control back to internal. Hers wandered ever further external.

I had a sudden shock of walking in her shoes when perimenopause hit me smack between the eyes. HRT (and various other measures) got me back on track. She didn’t have the info or action and the resources that helped me in the 2020s, back then.

We have no relationship. Haven’t for decades. But I have far more sympathy with how she got where she is, and there for but the grace of the gods go I.

It’s far too late now. But if I had my time over, armed with the knowledge and personal experience I’ve been lucky enough to benefit from, I think I could have helped her with a more “honey not vinegar to catch bees” approach.

I was too liberal with the vinegar, because until I knew what it felt like carrying those extra 20 years, I didn’t truly comprehend what she was contending with.

I’m shocked. I was ready to be supportive, but your poor mum has lupus, fibro and arthritis, has had some thyroid removed and probably done menopause.
You are grumbling because she’s insufficiently proactive?!

So for decades she’s been your cheerleader, now she’s knackered and burnt out, you are out of empathy!

I was a highly energetic woman, did loads of voluntary work, community work, was a real live wire. I’m now struggling to be bothered to get off the sofa, if it isn’t compulsory. I don’t know whether burn out caused fibro, or fibro caused burn out, but I’m knackered. I spent my energy on other people. I bet she feels like she’s wasted hers on you.

I can’t believe you know her, know how proactive she’s been, putting other people first and looking after you all, and now when she’s slowing down you begrudge her not sorting herself out.

Shameful, frankly.

On your track to “becoming an adult” you seem to have gone from seeing her as a parent to seeing her as less than an adult and person. Some people do struggle more and mental illness can make that harder but my goodness you’re making it hard for her to be open and have an adult relationship with you.

Rheumatologist with special interest in Lupus. If you're OK with paying for a private appointment, pick one who has an NHS post as well, so she can transfer onto that list afterwards.

The idea that a MH nurse is gatekeeping everything (and sounds like she's seeing everything through the lens of it being psychological) is worrying, especially when she's already put her off accessing quicker help in a sector she should know full well is inadequately funded.

You've gotten some very harsh responses here (and some are definitely projecting)
But I get you 100%.
Children often see their parents through rose tinted glasses and as you get older and have your own kids, you realise there's a lot more to them than the narrow view you had as a child which is sometimes quite disheartening.

My mum (also 60's) has recently gone downhill physically and mentally and is doing very little to help herself and a lot of complaining and I am struggling hard with constant empathy (despite being a very empathetic person generally). And I realise some of that is because we were raised by her to always suck it up and get on with it yet she is doing none of that.
It has also come at the worse time, when my kids take up all my time and energy!

Interesting that people mention neurodivergence and both myself my sister and at least one of my kids is ADHD and suspect it probably comes from our mum. Which does tend to make helping others much easier than motivating yourself to do any kind of life admin for yourself.

So I don't know the answer, but I am right there with you!

I feel so reassured by the replies I've seen here. I'm not 'old' but she sounds like me. I have MDD, ADHD and I suspect there's an autoimmune thing like CFS going on too but I don't have the energy to keep going back to the doctor's after being fobbed off for the millionth time.

I had a breakdown 3 years ago and still feel so depleted that if I had the energy or the motivation I'd want to end my life. When you feel like that, every single little thing you do is an achievement yet no one thinks you're doing enough. But that kind of event ruins a child's life. Then you read how awful and damaging it is for children to grow up with a depressed parent. Or a post like this, from your perspective. How do we avoid fucking them up? This wasn't a choice I made, I thought I'd be a different person than this shell of a human.

I'm not making this about me, I'm just showing you that there are people who live like this and they can't help it. It's hell. So yes, just be kind, stop judging her, she did her best then and she's doing her best now. Everyone's 'best' looks different and you don't seem to understand that - it's why someone suggested ASD for you - it's called Theory of Mind.

She was a great mum, (as you said) and now she’s depressed. Depression can affect anyone at any time. Perhaps a bit of empathy from you might help.

I think you went too far with the victim complex but I do understand your frustration. I have similar with my mum - she has some muscle pain but won’t see a physio, I’ve offered to pay if that’s an issue but she says no. I once booked a massage for her and she was furious with me. She tells me she’s really unhappy and never goes out anywhere, I suggest days out or a coffee out somewhere and she turns me down. And on and on and on. I hate seeing her like this but I don’t know what to do. Seeing a poster’s suggestion of therapy to talk about your relationship is a good idea, I think I might try that!

Thanks for all of these recent responses. It's nice that a few of you have actually understood me and I'm sorry to those of you are going through similar to me.

I have been full to the brim with empathy for my mum for a long time untill it got too much. I wasn't judgemental at all for the first 5 years.

I can't find it back to quote you but to the person who suggested PIP- she gets the highest amount possible. So I know for a fact she has the money to self fund the private appointments because she's got all of the equipment she needs now.

@NeverDropYourMooncup ah thanks, it's not too long since she saw a rheumatologost. My sister asked for her to be transferred to specialist place and they wouldn't. I'll see if I can nudge her to try again privately. I don't think it's enough the mental health nurse "managing it all", surely she is too but on top of it but I'm supposed to accept that as an answer.

Anyway I've sent her a message this afternoon to say I'm sorry for the upset I've caused and can we reset to back before our argument because I miss being in proper contact

I’m sure she’ll appreciate that. I hope you manage to patch things up.

Personally, I find managing my health exhausting. It’s a full time job.

I think my dc think about me like you do about your dm. I am also 60 and have very low self esteem. I'm probably nd as ds has autism and dd3 has adhd. Dd2 in particular thinks she can fix the situation by throwing money at it, in my case she has offered to pay for a solicitor. If she had the time to take me to a solicitor (there are none near me and travelling is difficult as I'm going blind) it would help. I know it's not her problem but she knows why it's so difficult. Then she goes lc aa she can't deal with the situation.
Sending me a link would probably upset me too! Just try and be there for her no judgement no responsibility.