To find nursery questions annoying

[Traballi]

Dh has a friend 'John' who he met 10 years ago at work.

John and his partner 'Mary' meet up with us every 6 months or so.

We have 3 year old DC and theirs is a year younger, aged 2.

They chose not to put DC in nursery as Mary's mum moved in with them and is pretty much a live in nanny so can cover them while working and give them a night off whenever they want.

My DC has been in nursery since 8-9 months.

Mary doesn't agree with nursery before age 2 and I've noticed each time we meet she always asks 'Remind me what age your DC started nursery again?' 'How many hours a day is she in nursery?' And observes DC a as if scanning for signs of damage.

We don't see them that often and I got on with John long before Mary was around on the scene but I find the questions/ judgement so annoying.

I know many on MN agree with Mary and yes in an ideal world we'd do nursery later but DC is doing well and we don't have live-in family help like they do.

Women like Mary are why I avoid mum friends in general as can't stand the judgement you get from women who think they are superior mothers.

Someone who went to school with DD1 didn't settle in nursery so was cared for by an elderly grandmother until she started school. This was in 2001 when maternity leave was only 16 weeks so she was probably only 3 or 4 months old. She really struggled socially when she started school because she wasn't used to being around other children.

We dont all have the luxury of a free live in nanny mary hun.

Nursery is SO beneficial (coming from an ex nursery worker AND mum of 2) my eldest started at 9 months, one morning a week, than 1 day than 2 and now 3. She LOVES it and the benefits (improved speech/understanding/ better socialisation etc) have improved each time.

I can't stand mums like mary. Do whatever ever is best for your child/family/circumstances but bore off judging other mums for doing the same

The men can still meet up you aren't joined at the hip. Just tell h Mary is a pita about nursery and you do not have to explain /justify yourself to her or anyone else.
I assume h is old enough to be allowed out on his own in the adult world and do adult stuff. Why does he need you to presumably 'entertain' Mary while the boys bond ? That can jog right off, unless the friend isn't allowed out on his own / glued to Mary's side.🙄

I was like this as a kid, except it was mum who didn't want me to go to nursery / preschool, it took me ages to settle in and I found it so hard to make friends, still do for that matter.

Then the dads can take the kids out somewhere, or DH can take yours to theirs. It's so infrequent there's no need for you to be involved with Mary.

or when you do see her & she bangs on about it. Just say 'it's great isn't it, she's so sociable & learnt so many skills she'd never have learnt if she hadn't gone to nursery'

I think it's better for babies/infants to be looked after at home, but it's not possible for everyone (& not everyone wants to) so I'd never say so unless asked AND if I know someone has no choice (or even just feels they don't) I'd be positive about it.

Mary is a twat best avoided!

Of course you can avoid her. The men can go out for dinner or a drink, or they can take the kids out. Why are you so against this??

Definitely!

'Dont come at me' then don't say such absolutely stupid things.

So actually you're the one causing the issues, behave yourself. I'm surprised the men don't meet up without the pair of you.!

Surely OP is just meeting Mary with the same passive aggressive energy she's been giving her the last few years?

Mary has made it known she doesn't approve of nursery before 2 and has repeatedly asked how old OP's DC were when they started nursery and how many hours a day they spend there. Feels very loaded.

Good on OP, although I agree with PP that if you don't actually get on with this woman then you should tell DH you'd rather he meets up with his friend one on one (that's what I would do).

Dm is always saying how good it is that my dgc go to nurseries and how much it benefits them. I'm never sure if she's having a dig at me being a SAHM and that it's just been blind luck that they've turned out so well!!
Btw dm sent me and db to nursery when I was about 3 to 5 and I didn't enjoy it at all as they insisted all the dc had a nap and I refused. They used to make me sit in the dark hallway. Dm chose not to believe me - this was 55+ years ago.

Many years ago when we planned our family we waited until we could manage on Hubby's wage alone so I could be a SAHM. However this was our choice and I would never judge anyone for not doing the same (in fact I worked in childcare so know there are advantages and disadvantages to both types of family situation)
When the subject comes up again (which from your post it definitely will!) just play up the advantages your child has had by starting nursery earlier than theirs (learning social skills like sharing, taking turns and being comfortable in the company of trusted adults that aren't family) then there's the advantage of toys, games and crafts that you possibly wouldn't have/do at home or would have to go to extra groups to access (I took my children to toddler groups, Tumble Tots gym groups, soft play etc just so we got variety to our days) Mary is entitled to her opinion but that doesn't mean it's the only opinion or the 'correct' way to raise a child

Bless your soul. I know 😉

This Mary isn’t making a very smart point either. That’s the point

Simplify it with a solid
" fuck off Mary"

Look my personal opinion is that I wouldn’t send my children to nursery/childcare because I think they’re better off at home with me. I’ve poured through the (admittedly lacking research), and will be starting part time preschool at 3 for each of my children as that is developmentally optimal for children of educated parents with no socioeconomic or other disadvantages. I also live in a country with shockingly poor childcare standards, and high child to carer ratios (Australia) with active investigations into abuse in childcare right now. My past employment was with investigating and responding to child abuse, and I simply cannot trust a paid carer with my pre verbal child.

That being said, I would never in a million years -

1. Think that I get to have an opinion about the childcare arrangements of a child who is not my own.

2. Be ignorant enough to think that being a stay at home mum is something most people can afford (or that all mums/parents would even want to look after their own children all day every day for several years!)

3. I’d never share my opinions with someone who uses childcare for their children. It’s a very sensitive topic so I’m careful how I express my viewpoint if at all.

Literally all of the mothers I am friends with use childcare out of necessity and I only ever say positive things about it because I want to be a good friend, and I’m not so extreme about it that I believe their children are suffering or anything. All the children I know in childcare (again, that’s every child but my daughter) seem perfectly fine.

4. My “issues” with childcare are about the system as a whole and the lack of genuine choice families have to care for their own children in the early years due to economic pressures and poor parental leave.

Next time she asks give her an incorrect answer.
When she points out that this is not what you said before, you can ask her why she needs to ask again if she already knows.

My dd thrived in nursery; all the more so as I am not the most imaginative or sociable mother. On the hand, I don't know how ideal it is to have her mother living with them.

The state of childcare in Australia is in dire need of proper regulation and oversight - 100% agree.
The uncovering of abuse perpetrated by trusted childcare workers and the suffering caused to innocents - completely agree this is horrific, unacceptable and preventable.
However, statistics still show that most children who are abused suffer at the hands of someone they know. At home. By a family member. Not a childcare worker.
Just because parents are in an acceptable socio-economic bracket or educated, doesn't mean that they are competent at teaching small children. Or have the patience to do so. I certainly don't. I could manage being part time and doing one fun thing a week, but not all day every day. It can be exhausting.
I know that small children don't really learn socialisation skills until later, but even small children can learn skills like waiting their turn, not being the only one claiming an adult's time (which used to happen with big families, lots of small children in close age, neighbours looking after each other's kids).
I love that you're supportive of your friends whatever they choose, but don't assume that they use childcare because they need to work, it might just be that they recognise that a trained early childhood educator is more qualified (and has first aid etc) than they are. Ecec is also more up to date with normal child development and milestones so can flag when things are not progressing as they should.

I share the point of view I saw just now that Mary could well have just been thinking about the fact that the time was coming for hers to go to nursery. Instead of surveying for damage she might have been searching for reassurance that it would all be OK.

I sent mine just before 3, and until then, I was constantly asked by others about when they would be going. This peed me off no end so it definitely goes both ways!

I don't think making a big song and dance about how amazing going to nursery is would necessarily have the effect that most people are saying it would have - If someone has made the choice to send later, none of that will make them feel bad! (It did seem ironic that what made John most excited about nursery was actually a result of good parenting and seemed like, in your case, it probably would've happened anyway without nursery's help! Maybe that's why she was bristling?) My experience of nurseries, from the inside, was not great (I had massive problems with both health and safety and the quality and level of engagement with the children). I eventually found one that did a good job with my LO and she loved her time there but they still had their issues. So, I would make the same choices about when I sent LO again if I had my time over. I realise though that circumstances mean we aren't all in the same boat, people place importance on different things and I would never judge anyone for when they chose to send their LO to a nursery (so if she was judging you, she's an arse!)

I can't totally feel this OP. When my son wa nursery age he started at 10 months full time. We had no choice as we needed him to go so we could work.

No family help. No single high earner to allow someone to stay home.

Within the group of mums I was close with since maternity leave none of them worked full time. None of them needed nursery (high earning partners, parental help etc.). Almost all of them never said anything negative about my DS going to nursery....Except one, constant remarks about how guilty she would feel leaving her DD with "strangers", various remarks about selfish parenting etc. Sometimes aimed directly at me as questions/remarks such as "So you need feel awful having to leave him everyday with people who are not his family" sometimes females in general, but you get the idea.

Yes it impacted me, yes it affected my feelings of mum guilt. No it didn't make any difference to him going, or the fact he flourished there. It did however make me feel like shit, even if I was sure we made the right choice (albeit the only choice we had).

One day I told her that she should be incredibly grateful to be in position to give up work to be a SAHM but did she ever feel bad that her husband had to do all the a hard work to pay the bills? Didn't she worry her child has little socialisation with others their age outside of our group. Was she worried her child would have attachment disorders? Etc etc. When she started getting defensive I just said exactly you made your choice, you are happy with it who am not make you feel rubbish about it.

She stopped after that, although she also moved further afield so I didn't see her as often either.

I think next time she starts with this, look her in the eye and tell her that while you're sure she doesn't mean it come across like it, she makes you feel very uncomfortable when she starts with this line of questioning and you feel it's overstepping a line.
If it makes everyone else feel awkward so what?
She's very rude and sounds very entitled. I do find people with only one child can be incredibly judgemental and lack any awareness or empathy towards people who have no choice but to juggle and to do things they don't necessarily want to do but have to.

That’s exactly what I’d be tempted to say to her.
One of mine started crèche fulltime at 9 months, dc2 started three days a week at almost seven months and for dc3 I was a sahm. So I’ve seen all sides and heard all the comments. When DC3 started preschool at 3 she ran in the door and it was like the most exciting thing to happen in her life . She would nearly be in tears at the weekend she missed preschool so much. So obviously my full time company was less than ideal lol.

I had exactly the same thing with my DC1 and a friend who would state every time I saw them, how the days were long for my DC to be in nursery for. Would also ask multiple times how many days a week they were in - 4 days a week. You get lots of judgemental Mums & comments but just rise above it. Your life and your choices. Both my DC loved nursery. But because of nursery, I stayed employed at my same company & this year we managed to up size, which we wouldn’t have been able to do if I didnt work.