to be fed up of hearing 'I've worked hard for my money'

[newbluesofa]

Lots of chat on MN recently about taxes on high earners. So heard lots of 'we have this money because we work bloody hard for it' and honestly I'm sick of it and think the people who say it are selfish.

Nurses work incredibly hard, long shifts, difficult job. Carers provide absolutely essential service, again shift work, difficult hours, difficult job. Teachers provide essential work, I know multiple teachers and they all devote evenings, weekends, school holidays to the detriment of their own families. All of these jobs also have huge emotional tolls. So 'I've worked hard for my money' means nothing to me, because a lot of people work a lot harder for a lot less.

But not before the telephone was invented

Your post made me feel better - it's always good to know there are people who see these things are complex
Except OP doesn't seem to gasp the actual complexity of the issue. Saying you're fed up of those who say they deserve their income because they work out is failing to understand the concept of why most better paid jobs do pay more in the first place and why ultimately, oy few are capable and willing to do these jobs.

By devices created by billionaires I was more referring to the iPhone...

Are you serious?
No I am not. This is as silly as to try to justify that the average high paid office job is easier than a waiting table job.

Do you honestly believe that everyone has the exact same equality of opportunity and can simply land a well paid job? I mean that just isn’t the case. And we will always have differently paid jobs.

But I’d prefer to pay more tax so that the waitress can have a decent standard of living. And I’d also like them to be paid more rather than more and more money going to the super rich. I don’t like this “every man for themselves “ attitude. Reducing inequality benefits everyone.

But a lot of that hard work in those early jobs helped you to climb the ladder

So all the people who say they have worked hard for their money and have sacrificed x,y and z, what are you doing it for? Surely you weren't that bothered about the x,y and z and were just doing it for personal enrichment and want to keep it all for yourselves?

I mean boo hoo you chose to give those things up!

There seems very little interest in doing a job for the love of it. It's just chasing the big bucks.

I genuinely think it is easier. I have autonomy, I work from home often, I don’t deal with customers directly, i have income security, I work regular hours I enjoy my work which challenges me.

I would hate to be on my feet all day, dealing with the public and working unsociable hours.
Yes, I have more responsibilities now but ultimately the waitressing is most definitely harder work.

They pay more than enough tax and what they don't want is to prop up a welfare state where they are constantly asked to give more (with little to no benefit) so the leeches of society can take more. I certainly don't, which is why we are leaving the UK and I think many more will follow suit.

Goodbye 👋

A real issue we have is the suppression / concertinaing of wages but no one seems to be talking about that? Great for NMW to go up but it is devaluing those middle jobs between NMW and 100k plus. Inflation keeps going inline with NMW but no one in the ‘middle’ pay is moving so everyone feeling the squeeze!

Honestly, I think anyone that refers to the poor as leeches should leave. It's disgusting.

Stay gone. Being an ex pat isn't all you'll think it is.

You know how you hate immigrants? You'll be the immigrant. Having money won't make the native population love you. Quite the opposite.

I'd try Dubai. They don't give a shit about the poor either.

Thanks :) I'm excited to finally be paying into a system which rewards ambition instead of stiffling it. And I'm very excited to no longer be propping up the UK welfare state, but let's see what reform does because they are almost certainly going to be the next govt and don't seem to like the idea of people being paid to do nothing. We will see how it all unfolds, from afar of course 😉

At no point did I say I hate immigrants, in fact, immigrants are usually the hardest working of them all. Lazy benefits claimants on the other hand, who game the system and leech off of the state, well, I'll give you one guess as to who most of them are. And no need to worry, I've been an expat 5 times, I'm familiar with how it all works thanks.

Nobody mentioned immigrants until you did, I think someone is projecting.

I come from a family of immigrants, I've always been an immigrant and we have all always worked hard for what we have. Thanks for assuming though, you of course couldn't be more wrong. Shocker.

That’s not what a meritocracy is though. A meritocracy rewards skills, abilities, responsibility, experience and results, not just effort.

Companies don’t generally just pay people lots of money for the hell of it. They pay more if there are fewer people who can do the job.

i wouldn’t claim the we have a complete meritocracy in the UK but we should be increasing measures that provide accessibility and enhance social mobility. The idea that everyone should be paid the same per hour (which logically follows on from your arguments) is a distraction from getting governments to tackle social mobility.

I am sure most people work hard. Some people have physically demanding jobs, some emotionally demanding - mine is mentally demanding. I love it and did work very hard to get it, and wouldn't swap it but sometimes it's hard to switch off. I have worked in factories, in retail, in customer service all were physically demanding but I wouldn't say I worked harder at all. I didn't work hard to get them ( nowhere near the same amount of application forms, no pyschmometic tests, no keeping on top of qualifications and reading around the subject etc) and I didn't enjoy the jobs either, so THAT was harder. On the other hand my job now is flexible and I choose when I work ( within reason) where I work and how I work which is much easier than being dictated to. I tend to work quite long days and travel a fair amount which can be exhausting and it's very busy. I think what I am saying is hard work means different things to different people because we are all different. Some people may take the piss and put in minimum effort but most people do work hard, whatever their job is.

Alleid health professional here. Regret my choice tbh. Incredibly hard work and shit pay.
But as a teen I was academically capable, worked hard and yet had severe mh difficulties, abusive relationships etc so made " bad" career choices. When I say bad I mean ...not lucrative.
So if I leave my role in cancer care, the department will be short ...they are already short of staff.....partly due to pay and conditions.

Imo to earn ££££££ you have to have an aptitude for Maths: I dont. This is down to genetic luck not hard work.

Dd wants to earn £££ in banking. She is luckily good at Maths and studying that along with Chemistry and business. Good on her.

But it is sad that this is seen as one of the only routes to a comfortable life whilst working for public services is not a route to a decent standard of living.

I suppose an unequal society has led to us all bickering over money!

Id rather earn 100k and pay tax than earn my 38,000 and pay tax.

I'm not sure that this argument has legs.

This is true, he was on desert Island discs and he said everyone should have access.

I have no issue with paying my taxes. But I do take issues with people denying that I work hard for my money. My husband and I are in law - my husband works 80hrs+ a week as a partner and I work 60-80 a week in house. All day every day we either parent or work. No downtime. We do our very best to be fully present parents so our child never feels let down - we’ll be there for the carol service and the nativity etc. but that means we come home do bedtime and then work until we drop. Our work product is scrutinised and if we give wrong advice (even if it’s in the 18th hour working that day) we will probably be sued or under regulatory scrutiny. That is a huge amount of pressure. The rates of burnout and addiction in our industry are high. I know not every high earning job is the same, I have some friends in IT earning similarly who can do they job with their eyes closed and work about 4 hrs a day but let’s not pretend that’s everyone. For most people (not all) they are working c40hrs a week. The mental toll of working double that for 15-20 yrs and living on 4-5hrs sleep is huge. C40% of my time I’m working for the taxpayer. As I said I don’t resent that, I support the state, but I do disagree with anyone who won’t accept I’m working hard. I’ve worked other jobs eg retail as a student and when I clocked off I was off - now I’m never off.

I worked 2 jobs to put myself through a bathelors degree. Qualified and worked full time.

My husand and i were then both studying for masters degrees whilst working full time and simultaneously doing up a house (so we could buy and invest). We sold the house and did the same again With another house. We now live in a decent sized house in a nice rural location. People tell us how "lucky" we are.

We spent years studying, working, physically labouring on houses (&still do to get this one in shape).

We waited to have children until we were financially secure. I now work, have 3 children under 4 and I've just started studying again for a career shift.

We both work in high pressured jobs with responsibilities that mean you take the mental load home at night. No one wakes up at 3am worrying if they scanned the cornflakes properly.

I resent being told I'm lucky and should pay more tax.

Leeches? I think you have a dark view of the world and the people in it.

I've heard talk of an exit tax...

I think people disagree here because it’s not either or. There will never be equality for multiple reasons - hard work and effort are one, choice is another (eg the profession you go into). Luck IS a factor, but it’s never the ONLY factor. Usually if someone does well there is hard work and determination and sacrifice in there. But that’s not to say people who struggle don’t work hard, are determined and make sacrifices, and are held back for whatever reasons (they can be through no fault of their own, eg health, family problems, OR by making the wrong decisions- eg you have to be smart, if you want a certain wage going into a profession where you KNOW wages are limited is never going to get you there, lifestyle and priorities come into it too…) So it’s not possible to make blanket claims for everyone, but I definitely disagree with the general attitude that people who do well don’t deserve it. You might say everyone who works hard SHOULD deserve it, but that’s a very different position to take