Funding everyone to have multiple children???

[MyLimeGuide]

Hello all, this issue seriously gets me down, as someone who has worked solidly since forever (im 45) always wanted 2 children. I have 1, realised I cant afford 2, seeing what labour have done, lifting the 2 child cap for benefits MADDENS me to the core! Not because of my own circumstances, im more than happy with one and I can give him everything.
Im a teacher, currently working in a SEN school, the majority of the cohort are from non working families with multiple siblings. Their biggest problem is neglect. Often these kids tell us their mum is pregnant again!!
i have seen this pattern with neglected children un every single school ive worked in. Unbelievable that Labour want to increase this!
It's not to help children, its the opposite.
Its unfair on hardworking people to be expected to fund it.
I believe EVERYONE is entitled to be a parent, regardless of circumstances, but NOT breed like its a hobby (a freeloading one with no care)

AIBU - Let everyone breed as much as they want regardless of circumstances its their god given right.

AINBU - This is unfair, children should be born into families that can afford to look after them fully and offer them the time and nurture they need to develop into humans with good mental health.

I would support this more. Perhaps, if it was done in a way that makes a real difference for poorer kids. Not by putting more money in the feckless parent’s pockets that will not likely reach the kids.

This 100%. Having worked in deprived areas- this was the pattern prior to the two child cap. The money goes on cigarettes, alcohol etc instead of the children it is intended for.

Some of those kids people are having might see you just grab one of the last state pensions if you're 48.
Declining birth rates have an impact on many things.

Its not a goady thread unlike your message. I dont work thursdays actually, if i did id be in the higher tax bracket and have to basically work more to fund the unemployed and serial breeders.

Yay, benefit bashing.

1 point for using feckless
2 points for don't have them if you can't afford them
3 points for I get nothing from my taxes

One in three children live in poverty. Trying to lift these children out of poverty is the right thing to do. Childhood poverty is linked to poor health in adults, poor educational outcomes and poverty in adulthood. By lifting children out of poverty they have a far better chance at being productive adults. It's an investment in the country's future.

One in three children in poverty. One in three. As a society we should be ashamed

I dont think it will make much difference though £200 is fuck all when raising a child. That probably just about covers their food costs for the month.
most people are intelligent enough to know this and stick to not having more kids.

Well, that's what the Tories thought when they introduced the cap in the first place.

But the evidence is clear that it didn't have the effect that they had anticipated.

The cap didn't discourage people from having more children, it merely made life more difficult for those children.

It's better to base decisions on actual evidence rather than what we assume must "surely" be the case.

Not goady at all? Serial breeders? Not goady? Right....

Well no, that’s the whole point. Having the cap didn’t reduce the number of children being born to families who needed support. It just ensured those children lived below the poverty line.

lifting the cap will pull half a million children out of poverty - how are you against that?

like it or not we need children to sustain society. These kids will be the ones who pay our pensions.

I get that not everyone agrees ideologically but if we could just do our research first….

Of course i dont want to punish existing children! I think there should be a deterrant not incentive to have more children born into poverty.

You work in a SEN school so must be aware that a number of conditions you are helping with are hereditary. So the parents may have these conditions and not be getting support, leading to chaotic lives. You must also surely know that multiple children and frequent pregnancies can be a sign of abuse from a partner.

The two child benefit cap makes no difference to the number of children someone has. If someone is leading a chaotic life without support systems, they will have more children whether they can afford it or not. Those children will just live in poverty. For those children born into these situations it will help lift them out of poverty and hopefully these children won’t be trapped in the same cycle as their parents.

More weed and tattoos is my guess

"Yay, benefit bashing."

And parents of disabled children bashing for extra points.

so if your own child ends up profoundly disabled due to an accident or illness, there’s no childcare provider for their age or level of need other than a specialist nanny costing in £10,000’s, they are out of school for a year while the council waits for a Sen school place to become available as the mainstream one can’t cope, the Sen school is only open 9-2.30, then you will be fine not going to work or claiming benefits because you have all financially provided for that scenario?

No one is entitled to be a parent.

What evidence is there to show that low income families are spending their money on smoking and drinking ? I work in retail ( management level, have a decent education, went to uni) and from a purely personal observation, the majority of people buying alcohol and tobacco related products are not low income families

We should invest in the children by giving the money TO the children.

Not directly, obviously, it could be the same amount, but it’s about time we looked at limiting options such as giving it in vouchers only redeemable in supermarkets/shops
for clothes and food.

Or a box you tick that puts it straight into an untouchable investment trust fund account each month till their 18 giving a huge financial boost when they go to university or fund training/buy a house as young adults.

You could have a set ‘box’ per child issued via Amazon delivery or collected at shops with particular staples in it that would ensure
no child goes hungry.

There are options other than throwing unchecked cash at people.

look at the mess in America with EBT, just giving most people money doesn’t work.

Broadly of this view. If only it was as simple as discouraging families from carrying on breeding. There is something fundamentally wrong in our society unfortunately.

Nope. Not disabled. MH problems as a result of neglect is my point. As clearly stated in my post.

well yes but this benefit cap is apparently not a deterrent. So what do you suggest?

You would hope so
.my son went on school transport about 40 minutes ago ,he will just about be going ing in to class at his SEN school now its all hands on deck due to the complex needs of the children, no time for teachers to be starting threads on mumsnet.

Given fertility issues on the rise, it won't be everyone who can benefit from this, it'll be everyone who, for the lack of better phrasing, can just pop kids out.

As you've stated, a lack of affordability is one of the main factors behind people having less children now. Considering it was nearly half a century ago that it was possible to raise a family of 5, run a modest house, a decent car and enjoy a handful of foreign holidays a year all on a single mediocre salary without breaking a sweat, it really is disgusting how couples who are desperate to start a family are now treated in this country.

This is a completely different topic. Of course i think disabled ppl should recieve benefits.

But punishing existing children is exactly what this policy has done. The deterrent was tried, and the evidence showed that it didn't work.

This isn't a hypothetical argument where we are arguing about what we think might or might not happen. We know that the cap didn't discourage families from having children that they couldn't afford and we know that the real impact of the policy was simply to push disadvantaged children further into poverty.

I don't understand why people aren't engaging with the facts.

It’s not “lifting them out of poverty” though is it? It’s just incentivising even more of it.