Getting paid £3513.72 tax free per year for each 3rd, 4th or more child if on UC

[WishingIwasyoungerandslimmer]

Is this really reasonable? For those working and just missing the eligibility criteria for Universal Credit, is it fair to them?

When would anyone working and just gettig by, be able to get an additional take home pay amount of £3513.72 per year for each child that you have? Have three children? Here's £10541.16. Got 4? That's £14054.88 . Have 5? Here's £17568.60. These figures are tax free amounts so the extra pay needed will be a lot more.

Did those calling for the two child cap to be lifted not understand the amounts of money that will be handed out if lifted?

Doesn't it just disincentivise parents from moving off Universal Credit into work or for those in work to try and get better paid jobs?

Isn't it a slap in the face for couples having to limit their family size to one or two children and to have to both work full time to support them through paid labour and paying taxes?

Surely if the government felt forced to scrap the two child cap, why not instead have reduced rates for each subsequent child? Apart from food, other costs will be less as the each new child has the use of older siblings old clothes, baby equipment etc.

The two child cap was popular for the majority of the country. It was popular with those that would have liked to have more children but cannot afford to do on the wages/salary they receive. Now over the next few years as it gets harder and harder to get by for those in work but not receiving benefits, the resentment will grow and grow. While those recipients of the UK's welfare state's largesse are saying, thank you very much, no need now for me to try and find work or work harder.

A child doesn't have to have a serious life limiting disability for the overall Universal Credit benefit cap to apply to the family. If a parent or just one child under 18 receives PIP (Personal Independence Payment), then the benefit cap does not apply to the family's benefits.

Could this be also a factor in the exponential rate of PIP claims? Remember PIP can be claimed for ADHD, for those anywhere on the autism spectrum, for those with anxiety, depression and so on if the affect of the condition impacts enough on their day to day living.

Well no for a child its DLA not PIP and you get it for how it impacts the child not the diagnosis. Both are massive spectrum, s not all children will be entitled to DLA

But as another poster has stated, people doing miminum hours are refusing promotion to full time which they could do. This is because it affects their entitlement to Universal Credit and the associated free access to services. They have worked out that they get more money overall if they stay on benefits than if they take the full time job offered to them.

Here's a link to information about the benefit cap which states that if a claimant or their child under 18 in their household receives any of the listed benefits, which include DLA and PIP, the benefit cap does not apply.

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/when-youre-not-affected

Yes thank you I have a severely disabled child who gets DLA my point is that having a diagnosis doesn't guarantee either a successful DLA or PIP claim its how that diagnosis impacts the child .

I think a lot of the time people who have a lot of kids when they can’t afford it and can’t work have severe mental health issues.
the way I see it the money will or should help raise those children without poverty.
poverty has never helped anyone.

Those kids are more likely to have better chances or contribute financially when they are adults themselves.
I’m sure the cost to society of not implementing these changes are far greater.
dont get me wrong I would rather get to the root of it and stop the parents having issues in the first place before they decide to have so many kids. I don’t like paying for irresponsible parents who make bad choices but thats not how life works, and I also have sympathy for what caused the person to become like that in the first place.

This thread is not about Child Benefit. It is about the dropping of the two child limit on receiving the standard child element of Universal Credit. The amounts currently payable for each child are the amounts shown in the thread title and my opening post.

www.gov.uk/universal-credit/what-youll-get

As reminded by others, there is though an overall cap on the total amount of benefits a family can receive. However, that overall cap won't apply if the claimant or any one of their children under 18 receives one of a list of other benefits. I have provided a link in a recent post.

There are people who do just that! My youngest sister being one. She has never worked, and has solely lived on benefit payments her entire adult life. Her second child was born with Downs Syndrome, and she has since gone on to have 4 more children (her last 3 by the same man, who also doesn't work and claims benefits).

Agree some people can’t manage the hard jobs. BUT. The people who CAN manage a difficult and complex role with long hours CAN also manage to NOT work. They can imagine it too.

This is so demoralising for so many working women. My niece is a FT teacher in London. One child. Desperate for a 2nd before she turns 40 but waiting until childcare is cheaper so she manage that on top of her job and long commute as she can’t afford to live locally. I wish any spare funds had gone to affordable childcare for workers.

@Jade3450 so how is giving the irresponsible adults of these children more money actually helping those children?
you have described part of my childhood.
my mother did not spend the money she received on her children.

Surely the system is totally fair - anyone has the freedom to quit their job and have some kids and go on UC if they want. These examples of people who are making the hard decision to not have a third child because they can't afford it. Why not quit their jobs and just have that kid and go on benefits? If it's so cushty.

Also rape clause i mentioned it up thread but no-one noticed. Does nobody else want to see it go?

@Onesmallnoserightherebecause some of us are not completely irresponsible adults who expect everyone else to pay for our poor life choices

So it's literally just morals then, and not because you know life on benefits is quite shit?

@Onesmallnoserighthereif it’s so shit then why don’t those on it get jobs?
because they get a practically the same money for doing nothing!
they are not training or trying to better themselves because they don’t have to while the cash cows keep working to pay for it!
I have zero respect for anyone who chooses to live of other peoples money and chooses not to work and to have multiple children that they can not afford.
they are definitely the lower class and most people, including them know this !

But they’re choosing whether they can afford another likely based on maintaining their quality of life no? The benefit cap isn’t keeping people afloat with their mortgages and pension pots.

What I don’t get about a lot of these ‘poor me I can’t afford another child and they can’ arguments is that if people are that bothered why don’t they quit their job and have another baby? And the short answer is because their quality of life would hugely diminish, so the whole thing isn’t comparable.

And fwiw, I grew up in a council house with a single mum & 3 siblings. I’m in a professional position and we as a household are middle earners, currently deciding if 2 children is all we can afford. We have had 4 rounds of self funded fertility treatment, so having another isn’t free for us (note how I am not complaining that it’s unfair). Lifting the cap is the right thing for children. It really says a lot about people who are more bothered with what they aren’t getting than what children are getting.

ETA - most of this is general thoughts not aimed at you OP as I know you said about raising the cap to 4.

I’m not sure anyone “scrapes together” £2m. And if they do manage to build up the wealth to buy a £2m+ house, the mansion tax of a few grand isn’t going to tip them into homelessness is it.

@Btowngirlbecause benefits don’t pay mortgage only rent.
because we have to work to pay for those who Choose not to take responsibility.
The lower class just don’t help themselves

I had four children before the cap so I always had help for them all. As a working single parent this was the difference between struggling and having a normal life. We never had luxuries but we also never needed food banks like so many poor working families have needed in recent years.

My children are pretty much grown so this won’t impact me but as a society I think we should be protecting our vulnerable. Many of the families now getting help for their children will be working families who aren’t being paid a living wage.

I suppose they're used to the poor standard of living benefits gives you. I don't quit my job and go on benefits because I earn more money by working and if I was on benefits I wouldn't have so many nice things. I'm not having a third child because they wouldn't get their own room and I wouldn't be able to afford all the nice holidays and clubs etc that I want my kids to have. UC just isn't that much money!

Oh so the benefit system isn’t all that then. As a PP said, everyone knows that being on benefits isn’t a better quality of life than working, you’re not going to get a good retirement plan, have nice holidays or own a house. The way this thread is going people are acting like the 2 child cap being lifted is going to see people lording it up while the rest of us minions carry on working. Just not true, I don’t know how people live their life with such bitterness.

This is a slap in the face for responsible self reliant taxpayers will hopefully mean the final nail in the coffin of this disastrous Labour government.

All of these people who had and more will continue to have children that they cannot afford, already contribute nothing to the system and take from it instead, will now all get an average of additional £5k a year. A working person would have to get a £6k-£8k raise in the working income to get that. How many working people will get this next year and the year after and the year after that.

It’s an absolute joke and a total affront to those who do the right thing. Because it’s just easier to have kids you cannot afford and get more money for free. Hopefully this is the thing that marks the turning point against this Labour government.

Reform has also supported removal of the 2-child cap.

If they said “fuck this” jacked it all in, threw caution to the wind and decided to have another child, who is going to pay their mortgage? Benefits don’t, not that I think they should.

Children are a privilege not a right. If you are in a low paid job, it’s absolutely right that the government should help you but that help should be finite. If you’re already struggling to pay for the two children you have then it’s completely irresponsible to add anymore into the mix.

As someone else has said on this thread already, presumably for the same reason people on benefits don’t get off benefits and get a job to pay for themselves, since life on benefits is supposedly so hard.