Middle earners punished

[Eucalyptus321]

I am feeling so disheartened and frustrated by how middle earners are constantly suffering at the hands of ridiculous government priorities. My husband and I have a greater household income than other families we know but have less cash in hand due to increased taxes coupled with the fact we receive zero benefits like child benefit or tax free childcare etc. ZERO. If they want middle earners to fund the country thought tax then at least support us with childcare costs. It’s a joke that two parents earning £99k each get childcare funding but parents with one £101k salary and one £25k salary receive nothing. I just need to speak to people who understand the burden of raising a family amidst the current financial climate and then the potential of further tax rises!

Fuck me

You are very well off.

Our household income is 50k combined and I consider that the squeezed middle but also am very grateful that we are at that place.

We're all only one accident or illness away from not earning anything at all.

This is silly for several reasons:

vouchers, tax rebates or cash- in terms of money from the government is the same.

we also NEED more children born. You could make the argument that children of low low earners that are reliant on benefits in order to survive are less likely to be net contributors in the long run, which would be the opposite for the children of middle earners. So enabling the squeezed middle to have more children would be better for the economy in the long run. But to deincentivise people from having kids would be a huge huge mistake

Well there is a certain thing called contraception which stops you having children you can’t afford. And where are these dying of starvation children?

Ah I see, it just shows you never know someones circumstances...

Yeah: this will not be news to most single parent or lower earning dual parent households.

The one really important thing you are missing is, a family with an income of £120k pre tax will be able to raise a mortgage despite childcare costs.

so, while the lower earners are spending less on rent, and probably childcare, assisted by the state, they aren’t accumulating capital.

Its so easy to forget that a mortgage/ house is a savings vehicle. I’m extremely cash poor right now but ultimately I have a capital asset so I’m not in the same vulnerable position as someone renting.

Untrue

90k to support a family doesn’t go as far in London - presumably OP is in London or the south east and you’re not.

I think most people are in that very position

I paid £40k+ in tax last year and because I earn over the threshold (even though my DH earns far less than me) we have to pay £1600 a month for childcare so that I can keep working, keep paying tax which helps to fund the country. And I’m expected to STFU and not complain because of how “lucky” I am to be in this position. Never mind 20 years of paying off university debt and working a 50 hour week. It’s all just fallen into my lap and how dare I even whisper a complaint about my tax bill.

I won’t leave, I will never seek to avoid paying my taxes, but I do get royally fucked off by being told I’m not a nice person unless I pay every penny uncomplainingly.

Agree, we get applications for grants and you look at their bank statements and it's deliveroo several times a week. Tanning salon. Nail bar. Night out. Expensive iPhone and then lots of flutters on the online bingo. That's not poverty it's bad money management

I can't ever justify deliveroo

Then there's expensive wraparound and school holiday care, even if you qualify for the tax free element that doesn't last long!

Yes I get that. And I’m not advocating for kids you can’t afford. I have one.

but what do you want to happen when someone does have a child they can’t afford. Do you want them to leave them to die? I mean this happened little more than 100yrs ago. So be honest of that’s what you’re advocating. If you’re not, what are you arguing for?

How is a household income of £130k a “middle earner”?

It's relative though isn't it. Regardless of the tax situation, someone on 100k is minted compared to us on approx 14k and 5k (we do get DLA and Carers Allowance on top of that).

And despite the fact I was made redundant and have gone from being able to cover our monthly costs to not being able to, I still feel we're incredibly fortunate as we currently have no housing costs - and that I have a new job and escaped having to claim JSA and attend the Job Centre!

Absolute fucking bollocks

It isn't untrue though. I was genuinely staggered the first few times I saw it.
It was totally demoralising after years of hard work and studying and juggling single parenting to realise we would have been better off if I had done 16 hours a week as a receptionist and done all the school runs

You need to read Middle Ground by Joe Carpenter.

https://hqnetwork.co.uk/news/book-review-middle-ground-a-frontline-journey-in-social-housing/

You have no idea whether this is untrue or not. It just doesn’t suit your viewpoint

Well do that then! And enjoy Deliveroo several times a week and nail salons and bingo. I mean fucking hell….

The main problem in this country is people and corporations not paying the tax they morally or legally should. If you cracked down on trades and offshores, you’d solve the tax black hole overnight.

We came back due to elderly parent situation - it was towards end of covid - went just pre Brexit and had 19 months - still weighing up options, everywhere has advantages and disadvantages and none of the places we would pick that we know well because of our business ( Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands) are easy options and we aren’t in a position to retire , - child care situation not relevant for us as son is27 and in London -

Don't know if this is still the case but 20 years ago I worked in retail. I was recruiting for a full time supervisor and wanted one of my decent PT members of staff to apply. She point blank refused. Said she would be signifiantly worst off financially. I didn't believe her and kept on at her. In the end she told me what she earnt a month with the PT wage she received and her benefits on top.

I earned £2k a month as a manager. She was taking home more than me. Why on earth would she up her hours and reduce her free time to earn less?

That's a true story. Like I said, not sure if it's still the case.

If you want to vent go to Reddit you may get a better response.

Take home salary is what you have after tax and NI, household bills are moveable so depending on choices in housing and childcare folk will have more or less outgoings than others. If you’re on a higher salary you have more choice. What you’re talking about is discretionary spending after bills are paid.

Yes. Exactly. Bankrolling every fucking pet project the government thinks up every day, and then get lectures about being a fat cat, or something, just for having a good job - which I could lose tomorrow and be destitute.To say nothing of how any single income household is fucked over by the tax system.