Middle earners punished

[Eucalyptus321]

I am feeling so disheartened and frustrated by how middle earners are constantly suffering at the hands of ridiculous government priorities. My husband and I have a greater household income than other families we know but have less cash in hand due to increased taxes coupled with the fact we receive zero benefits like child benefit or tax free childcare etc. ZERO. If they want middle earners to fund the country thought tax then at least support us with childcare costs. It’s a joke that two parents earning £99k each get childcare funding but parents with one £101k salary and one £25k salary receive nothing. I just need to speak to people who understand the burden of raising a family amidst the current financial climate and then the potential of further tax rises!

Oh come one. No one has said they don’t want to pay tax but what happens in people’s lives is not the fault of the Taxpayer.

These posts always get backlash OP but I am completely with you. It is utterly ridiculous. I am a nurse (husband a higher earner) and know so many nurses that have reduced their hours or left completely because they are better off working less!! They save on childcare and actually have more cash to hand. In no way is that a positive thing. On top of that a further rise in the minimum wage is just going to push prices up even more. I have absolutely no idea what the government are thinking.

I think more people are doing this in the same way as working 16 hours a week, or older people previously not saving into a private pension if they realise this will disqualify them for pension credits

I don't know exactly where the line is but the person they quoted was talking about needing their money to cover their care as they get older. If that's a concern, then they're not rich enough for the wealth tax.

But the point is that wealth is sitting there doing nothing but accruing more wealth for that individual. We need that money to be circulating in the economy to work for everyone. At the moment the wealth held by billionaires is growing at a huge rate, to sit on their balance sheets and do nothing, while the people who have to work to earn money (be that low, middle or high earners) are having to pay tax to keep society functioning. In fact we are subsidising those who employ people on such low wages that we have to top them up with benefits. If the billionaires were actually putting their wealth into employing people then we wouldn't need to pay so much tax to top up the low earners.

In other words, as things stand wealth is moving from the poorest to the richest.

Do you seriously think that someone worth £33billiin can't get their hands on cash?

Well you could have chosen a state school for education.

I think the problem is that Labour are redefining ‘wealth’ as including pension pots and houses. A million pound pension pots would only provide circa/ £40k a year. Hardly enough to cover off care home fees at £2k a week.
The wealth tax would affect a good deal of people.

They could. But they'd probably just leave. Asset values would go down as well if they had to sell assets to pay for this.

I don’t think a wealth tax is actually being proposed.

One of my DC does go to state school. My other goes to private as the local state couldn’t meet his needs. In any event, that was a choice that we made long before this policy came into force. No reasonable parent removes their child from a school that they are happy and settled at unless they absolutely have to and it’s not reasonable for any Government to introduce a policy that forces them to do so.

As a state school parent I am still waiting for the cash bonanza that this policy is purportedly going to bring…I will be waiting a long time since (1) it’s generating very little and (2) Starmer has said it’s going to be spend on housing (i.e. not education).

They are though. Nvidia, Dyson, Zuckerburg etc etc all employ vast amounts of people. The billionaires ‘wealth’ is mainly tied to the shares in their company. The tech companies don’t generally pay dividends. So their paper wealth only becomes ‘real’ when they sell shares.

What they do do - is borrow against their company shares to buy assets and fund their lifestyle - thus avoiding income tax in their chosen domiciled country. Even the Labour gov here can’t tax loans.

If they bring in an extra tax on high value homes - that’s a wealth tax in my book.

Ah yes, about that….

we are in the position where we went without for years to plan for our future. Bought BTL as the government at the time kept saying to invest in property. Ploughed money into pensions. Now to be walloped with capital gains. No tax relief on mortgage payments. Higher tax for the pensions. I wish I bought those bloody avocados now when I had the chance 😡

Have you missed the news that more billionaires are leaving the UK ?

We NEED billionaires to pay for the NHS and the welfare system. You sound pretty clueless over how much tax they already pay. The pay £millions in tax.
I don't know how or where you come with the idea they are sitting on wealth.
They pay the employees, shareholders, suppliers etc etc.

There is a sweet spot with taxation- it gets to a point (and we are there now) where the more you tax people and businesses, the less money you gain. It's basic economics which anyone with an A level in economics understands.

This is because people keep their salaries lower (like now, where many ask for £99K not £100K so they get free nursery care) , businesses leave the country, (do you realise how many are now using Ireland as their company base?), and people stop spending as they have less of their income , so the economy stagnates.

Correct. The childcare hours should be offered to all working tax payers, we should be empowering and incentivising 2 tax payer household to keep hustling.

What wealth tax are you talking about? I haven't heard Labour propose a wealth tax, I wasn't talking about Labour

"have less cash in hand due to increased taxes" even if taxes were 99% there is no feasible way that increased taxes could leave you with less money mathematically. If you earn more, you do pay more tax, but you also have more money at the end of it, unless tax is over 101%.

We can all argue about tax, who should pay what etc - however the massive problem is the debt the gov has to service. It leaves no headroom for additional spending. RR would have to come up a spending cutting budget aka Nigel Lawson, to make any difference to the economy and get growth moving. More taxation will lead to even slower growth = less tax income=higher debt.
This will be a one term government.

Really? Labour have proposed every type of tax going? I'd barely be surprised if there was a pay by mile walking tax in the budget.

Agreed

The childcare benefit threshold hasnt changed really since it was introduced. The costs of childcare in this country are ridiculous, the people who are actually net contributors are being punished. How is that fair?

I am a high earner in Scotland. Due to the changes in our tax brackets I get no more cash in my hand than I did in 2019. I have fought for a promotion and been given 1 additional pay rise in that time.

I paid £90k out in child care when the kids were little from net income. That was a sobering afternoon looking at the bank statements I can tell you.

At most I was given £200 off my bill, when they reached age 3 until they were 5. The bill was £1000k per child per month at that time. I recieved no child benefit.

This is an insane way to run a country, we are better than this surely? Flexible working, childcare support, keeping people in employment all bring huge benefits to all our lives.

We are a message board of mums, we should all stand behind what it gives ourselves and our kids, not argue over it.

I checked yesterday, my 2011 salary is higher than my 2025 salary when inflation is taken into account. So I am technically on less (as is everyone else) and I will be on less again after the budget.

Someone will shout 'Diamond Shoes are to tight' but people are working their butts off to be worse off than ever in a country where putting a roof over your head seems an impossible task at times.

We are both considering reducing our hours, or changing our jobs. All this does is take less out of the collective pot. Someone needs to make that make sense for me.

Spot on.