Is this now normal 8/9 year old girl behaviour?

[Orangeorganic]

Those with girls in year 4 (so age 8/9) - is it normal for the girls to be absolutely horrible to each other? I am getting so exasperated by the daily accounts of sly comments, very blatant attempts to cause upset feelings and undermine others confidence by starting rumours, dirty looks, plus also when did 8/9 year olds start talking about buying skincare at Sephora, applying lip gloss in the classroom, wearing crop tops on mufti day and sneering at those in the class who don’t 😳
is this normal? Or is it just the school I’ve clearly stupidly sent DD to?
Advice welcome! Thanks!

Mine will get a phone mid year 6. I fully agree they aren't appropriate or necessary in primary, but she will likely have one for secondary, and we feel its better for her to start getting used to how to sensibly use one whilst still with friends we know well. It will be locked down to just talk and whatts app. In year 5 I don't know any of DD's friends who have a proper phone. A few say they have one but it's actually a parents old one without a SIM in it, so use more like a tablet.

The PP who says is all depends on whether the class is made up of eldest or younger siblings has it spot on IME - yr4 was horrible for DD as she was pretty much the only girl in her (very boy heavy) year group who hadn’t got an older sister so she was completely on the outside. It got slightly better in yr5, largely because she hung out with boys instead! She’s in a different school for yr6 and it’s completely changed - she’s in a class that’s well balanced in terms of gender ratios but also most of the girls are eldest or onlies and there is zero drama, no one is really into skincare beyond lipgloss and only one child has a phone. Moving her has been the best decision we could have made

I don't recognise this at all.

My y4 daughter still has to be told to wash her face about 6 times, let alone caring about skincare. A good day for her is it I pick her clothes so she doesn't have to 😂.

She likes toys, and pretending to be a cat, and playing with play doh and making potions from crap in the garden.

She's a kid still, and her and her friends live in a world of imagination and fantasy.

I’m a year 4 teacher and this is normal for some of the girls. My most recent class (currently on mat leave) had 18 girls. I’d say around 8 of them were still “little girls” who liked teddies and had Disney backpacks and just wanted to playa me write stories. But then the other 10 were always arguing, very bitchy towards each other, always falling out, lots of dramas. They all had PLouise lip glosses and talked about makeup and YouTube. Fascinating to watch!

This pretty much describes my 8yo 😂

I think it's normal. Not pleasant, but normal. I was at school long before kids had phones but I remember being laughed at in year 5 because I watched children's after school TV and cartoons. The other girls were into sitcoms and Eastenders! Yes, I was the eldest child, and we only had one TV in the house.

So the details have changed but I don't think this is anything new.

We had some of that creeping in last year with dd1 when she was in year 3 but I think that was the teacher style, she never seems to challenge anything. This year the new teacher is more on stuff and I've not heard anything about any issues

Nothing like this with mine and she is in Year 6. I know some of them are into skincare but mine has no interest so far (Thank God!)
Edited to say I believe the skincare phenomenon has come from Tik Tok but she doesn't have access to that and we don't do phones.

Year 4 teacher here - yes it is. I've taught this age for around 10 years and find it's usually the point when the girls start trying to work out their place amongst their peers and plenty of drama ensues. So much petty squabbling and alleged dirty looks or arguments over who is BFFs with who this week and whispering together whilst looking over at someone but definitely not talking about that person behind their back and we've no idea why she would think that, honestly Miss!! I feel like I spend more time trying to sort out social situations than teaching. The skincare / makeup thing is quite new and seems to just depend on the class - I had girls last year who had mini fridges in their bedrooms for their products but this year, not a single one who's interested.
I try to teach team building and looking out for each other but I think it's also important for children to know how to walk away from situations that make them unhappy, where possible. It's a really tough one and, although I think I'm pretty patient and generally good at this side of things, the same problems still manage to crop back up time and time again 😬

Not normal at all OP. Nothing like this 10 years ago when my own DDs were this age.

I feel sorry for these girls, they should be at Brownies or swimming or playing a musical instrument or running around with friends or just being silly with their siblings - not fretting over lipstick and their appearance FGS.

Turn off the Wi-Fi!! And get them busy with hobbies and activities and friends.

My two year 4 grandchildren, odd bit of nail varnish now and again. Not bitchy but very confident. Won an argument with her grandfather recently. She was in the right. I was very amused.

My friend went to loretto where the nuns would scrub your face if they suspected a speck of makeup 😂

For my daughters this really started in year 5, where the bitchy manipulative behaviour started and you really started to see the cliques forming. Fortunately my older daughter didn’t really get involved, but was on the receiving end of a few bitchy comments, she basically stuck with her mates. I think the best solution is to encourage her to find her people, those who share interests and values, and build those relationships. It’s never too early to learn to be who you are and don’t pretend to be someone you’re not for popularity.

They still have a dress code for Mufti at our school so crop tops are banned anyway (ours is middle school yr 5 - 8 ). Seems a sensible approach.

I thought the boys were bad in yr3 when there was physical violence. That worked itself out.

Then I've seen the girls and thought, that's a doddle to deal with compared with the nastiness they have. The girls in DSs class are unfortunately a lot like as described in the OP. Constant major drama.

There's definitely a link between the worst offenders and phone usage. I thought DS just had to roll eyes, ignore and keep out of their way until one of them decided to go through a graphic list of ways she'd like to kill the kids in her class that she didn't like. Of course she denied it... And school just shrugged their shoulders.

She's super middle class, teachers pet and thinks she's Queen of the Class. If she'd been on free school meals I guarantee it's been handled differently.

She is the very epitome of all those mean girls in American High School coming of age movies.

She's a truly awful child.

Thank fuck I have a boy.

Was talking to my sons girlfriend about the mean girls she left behind when she went to university. Most stayed behind and got jobs locally. They're still bitchy and disappointed in their lives.

Mean girls tend to not fare well at university she said because they can't find a new tribe. The students being too diverse geographically and nationally.

Not in my experience, teach 10 and 11 year olds . Maybe two have phones. All get on great. Play tag and chasing in the yard or make up dances or plays . Maybe into skincare at home but certainly no mention in school and on a recent no uniform day most (both boys and girls) wore jerseys leggings and hoodies.

Some days the boys are the source of the fighting some days the girls.

They seem far too young to be this bitchy and catty. Isn't this what high school is for?

This is so sad to read :(

Both for boys and girls Y6 is horrid. Too big for the school and ready to move on with hormones kicking in. Y4 is a bit young for it in my kids school.

In year 4 with my DD we had a lot of chats about:

• what makes a good friend
• why it’s important to stick up for friends and not be a bystander
• how to stick up for yourself
• self- esteem and confidence building

etc… there were a lot of situations to talk through and a lot of new feelings to reflect on. It’s much easier in year 5 now.

Just as with the mums (and not just mums!) some obsess over make-up, gossip, boyfriends, and some love reading, sports and helping people.
Probably fair to say more mums buy expensive make-up now than when any of us were in primary, though.

God i am so glad i live in a naice boring village

No-one gets a phone before secondary and there's a growing trend for dumbphones til yr 9

No one allows primary or even early secondary kids near any social media, they are not allowed on tiktok/insta/youtube

The girls seem completely oblivious to makeup and skincare

This is interesting! In DD's year 4 class it was a mix - a group of "older" girls who were into makeup and seemed to have a lot of friendship dramas, and the "younger" acting girls who were into creative activities and sports. Things seem to have settled down in year 5. DD considers crop tops scandalous!

In my experience as a teacher of this age group you get girls like this who are generally the strongest personalities in the class. You also get girls who are genuinely lovely and never seem to fall out with anyone.

Then in between are the girls in the middle who are more like the kind girls but want to be liked by the cool girls and that only leads to continual heartache for this group. They are always seeking validation from the cool girls, sometimes they get it which often leads them to drop their real friends for a short period until they are no longer flavour of the month leaving them with nobody and friendships to patch up.

At other times they seek validation and don’t get it, leaving them at best humiliated and worst the subject of persistent (and usually very sly, underhand) bullying. If your DD is in a class like this the best thing you can do is encourage her to be friends with the genuine girls and enjoy the activities she likes, not the ones others deem to be acceptable. Can you set up some play dates with classmates who aren’t being mean?

The areas I work in are not like this sadly. In a class with 17 8/9 year old girls only 2 asked for toys for Christmas, the rest want branded skincare, branded clothes and technology.

The local Brownie group is similar with only one child getting a toy as their main Christmas gift a few years ago, all the rest got phones or tablets. At the Christmas party less than 5 were in party dresses, the rest were in crop tops and mini versions of adult clothing.